August 2013 Pilot Discussion

[Claxon]

Are you really sure that you want to discuss & compare flying skills of our two pilot groups Hawk? A post like yours invites all kinds of commentary. I am EXTREMELY proud to be a former AWA aviator, and I will humbley leave it at that.

Have a great day! It will all be done soon.

CB

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j5t5aE0iW4o

 

[Claxon]

Has there been anything that has removed judge Silver's requirement for usapa to have an LUP? So just ignoring the Nicolau is not an option. Negotiating a seniority neutral contract ignoring the nicolau is not an option. Using M/B to integrate east west is not an option.

There is no requirement by Judge Silver for USAPA to have a LUP, legitimate union purpose.

The judges order,

"Pursuant to the Court’s resolution of the motions for summary judgment,
IT IS ORDERED Counts I and III of the complaint are dismissed and judgment is
entered in favor of US Airline Pilots Association on Count II of the complaint. US Airline
Pilots Association’s seniority proposal does not breach its duty of fair representation
provided it is supported by a legitimate union purpose.
DATED this 11th day of October, 2012."

http://leonidas.cact...oc194_Order.pdf

USAPA's fluid final proposal will be accepted by the company, the west pilots can then proceed down the long road of a DFR III suit if they wish. It is very unlikely that the west will prevail and even if they do, by the time it is settled USAPA will be long gone.

APA Communications Q & A

"Q: What can we expect in the way of integrating the two pilot unions once the corporation exits bankruptcy?
A: Once the corporation exits bankruptcy, APA will seek a ruling from the National Mediation Board that the two carriers constitute a single employer. APA anticipates a favorable ruling in the spring of 2014, which will likely lead to a decision that affirms APA as the collective bargaining agent for the two pilot groups."

https://public.alliedpilots.org/apa/AboutAPA/APAPublicNews/tabid/843/articleType/ArticleView/articleId/3188/Latest-QAs.aspx

 

[Phoenix]

There is no requirement by Judge Silver for USAPA to have a LUP, legitimate union purpose.

The judges order,

"Pursuant to the Court’s resolution of the motions for summary judgment,
IT IS ORDERED Counts I and III of the complaint are dismissed and judgment is
entered in favor of US Airline Pilots Association on Count II of the complaint. US Airline
Pilots Association’s seniority proposal does not breach its duty of fair representation
provided it is supported by a legitimate union purpose.
DATED this 11th day of October, 2012."

http://leonidas.cact...oc194_Order.pdf

USAPA's fluid final proposal will be accepted by the company, the west pilots can then proceed down the long road of a DFR III suit if they wish. It is very unlikely that the west will prevail and even if they do, by the time it is settled USAPA will be long gone.

Good money after bad.

You would think after all these donations one could at least get a bagel at a meet and greet... without having to wait until after the huge damages payout. By then the bagels will be stale and the cream cheese will be moldy.

 

[FL430]

What is there to stop the company from doing just that?

At the POR the company DJ appeal become moot. You did see the company ask for and got and extension. Why waste the time if it goes away? So no more company fear of a work action from the east.

We have a contract. The MOU is neutral but did not specifically say the Nicolau goes away but the T/A does say it will be the Nicolau. Does combinded ops save Parker money? Does declaring the nicolau the list solve his problem before integrating US Airways and american pilots? Yep! does Parker still have a legal problem from the west by not using the Nicolau? usapa can no longer screw up the merger. After the POR usapa becomes just background noise and the APA takes over.

So tell me why would Parker not announce it is the Nicolau?

For the same exact reason Scott Kirby says "NO".

 

[FL430]

There is no requirement by Judge Silver for USAPA to have a LUP, legitimate union purpose.

The judges order,

"Pursuant to the Court’s resolution of the motions for summary judgment,
IT IS ORDERED Counts I and III of the complaint are dismissed and judgment is
entered in favor of US Airline Pilots Association on Count II of the complaint. US Airline
Pilots Association’s seniority proposal does not breach its duty of fair representation
provided it is supported by a legitimate union purpose.
DATED this 11th day of October, 2012."

http://leonidas.cact...oc194_Order.pdf

USAPA's fluid final proposal will be accepted by the company, the west pilots can then proceed down the long road of a DFR III suit if they wish. It is very unlikely that the west will prevail and even if they do, by the time it is settled USAPA will be long gone.

APA Communications Q & A

"Q: What can we expect in the way of integrating the two pilot unions once the corporation exits bankruptcy?
A: Once the corporation exits bankruptcy, APA will seek a ruling from the National Mediation Board that the two carriers constitute a single employer. APA anticipates a favorable ruling in the spring of 2014, which will likely lead to a decision that affirms APA as the collective bargaining agent for the two pilot groups."

https://public.alliedpilots.org/apa/AboutAPA/APAPublicNews/tabid/843/articleType/ArticleView/articleId/3188/Latest-QAs.aspx

Hey Clax, since you are more proficient than I at posting videos how about start a thread over at the American forum and post some of those infantile videos by Captain Aux and Tony Anger and the western idiots that make them. I'm sure the APA guys will be amused , especially with the Ansett videos too!

 

[traderjake]

Whatever gets you through the night, Clax.

 

[end_of_alpa]

Of course it is a contract. A contingent one but none the less it makes a nullity of all previous contracts, because that is what we voted for it to do. So easy a flee on a caveman's butt could understand it. 🙄

WHOA!

 

[cleardirect]

What will actually happen is another creepy encounter in a crew news west filming, where a deluded pilot attempts to incorrectly lecture his president in an area the president knows labor relations reality. It will end with "NO"

You certainly do focus on a single word.

Did you also happen to catch the gushing praise for your boy Hummel and ALL of the BPR. What was it Kirby said? That they all went out on a limb to get the MOU.

Now one would have to ask what limb would the president and hard core DOH board be going out on a limb if the Nicolau was killed? Would they not be shouting it from the mountain top of this MOU really killed the Nicolau? What did usapa risk or give away out on threat limb?

 

[cleardirect]

There is no requirement by Judge Silver for USAPA to have a LUP, legitimate union purpose.

The judges order,

"Pursuant to the Court’s resolution of the motions for summary judgment,
IT IS ORDERED Counts I and III of the complaint are dismissed and judgment is
entered in favor of US Airline Pilots Association on Count II of the complaint. US Airline
Pilots Association’s seniority proposal does not breach its duty of fair representation
provided it is supported by a legitimate union purpose.
DATED this 11th day of October, 2012."

http://leonidas.cact...oc194_Order.pdf

USAPA's fluid final proposal will be accepted by the company, the west pilots can then proceed down the long road of a DFR III suit if they wish. It is very unlikely that the west will prevail and even if they do, by the time it is settled USAPA will be long gone.

APA Communications Q & A

"Q: What can we expect in the way of integrating the two pilot unions once the corporation exits bankruptcy?
A: Once the corporation exits bankruptcy, APA will seek a ruling from the National Mediation Board that the two carriers constitute a single employer. APA anticipates a favorable ruling in the spring of 2014, which will likely lead to a decision that affirms APA as the collective bargaining agent for the two pilot groups."

https://public.allie...Latest-QAs.aspx

Seriously you can not be this ignorant. Clearly judge Silver's order demands an LUP for usapa to use something other than the Nicolau. for you to say there is no requirement is well is guess typical of you easties. The facts staring you in the face and you still deny them.

 

[nevergiveup]

Seriously you can not be this ignorant. Clearly judge Silver's order demands an LUP for usapa to use something other than the Nicolau. for you to say there is no requirement is well is guess typical of you easties. The facts staring you in the face and you still deny them.

A list that is acceptable to APA and allows us to merge would be a LUP.

 

[mrbreeze]

Seriously you can not be this ignorant. Clearly judge Silver's order demands an LUP for usapa to use something other than the Nicolau. for you to say there is no requirement is well is guess typical of you easties. The facts staring you in the face and you still deny them.

Take a break, Sheldon....there is smoke coming outta your ears!

 

[Claxon]

Take a break, Sheldon....there is smoke coming outta your ears!

Sheldon has burned his clutch trying to climb Mt Nicolau. Between Kirby telling him a flat out "NO" and the rest of the posters burning his house of cards, he has no legitimate board purpose.

 

[nic4us]

Seriously you can not be this ignorant.

No, seriously, he is that ignorant.

Did you catch the crew news where Cleary accused Parker of furloughing as a negotiating tactic?

First, the company never negotiated with the scab union til the merger came along, and even then it was an afterthought once they got the APA on board.


Or, maybe you heard about the time they had to tell el presidente he was making an idiot of himself at the monthly labor relations meeting.

Perhaps you saw him in in PHX during the failed UAL merger attempt, where he and Mowery were giddily holding hands as they ran off to file for their denied emergency hearing from the 9th......I will give it to the 9th that they got that one right.


Basically...he is that ignorant. The order specifically says LUP, plain as day, but in uscaba land the ignorant run the "we can trade a cost neutral contract for seniority" fantasies full force and in complete denial.

 

[cleardirect]

A list that is acceptable to APA and allows us to merge would be a LUP.

Wrong!

A seniority list has nothing to do with "allowing" a merger.

An arbitrator is not concerned about what is "acceptable" to the parties.

Judge Silver said usapa has to use the Nicolau unless they have an LUP. usapa does not have one.

 

[Phoenix]

The order specifically says LUP, plain as day

Yes indeed it did. And also plain as day, she omitted the deadline and mechanism that such LUP must be judged. Why would she leave that out? Did a court superior to her stipulate a time at which an LUP would be needed? Hmmm..

If you try real hard to be objective, you may even discover that she put no burden on USAPA to do Jack Shiite regarding an LUP prior to anything. (that is why you guys are begging for an injunction).

Judge Silver said usapa has to use the Nicolau unless they have an LUP. usapa does not have one.

She most certainly did not say that. If she had you would not be praying for an injunction.