August 2013 Pilot Discussion

[mrbreeze]

No, seriously, he is that ignorant.

Did you catch the crew news where Cleary accused Parker of furloughing as a negotiating tactic?

First, the company never negotiated with the scab union til the merger came along, and even then it was an afterthought once they got the APA on board.


Or, maybe you heard about the time they had to tell el presidente he was making an idiot of himself at the monthly labor relations meeting.

Perhaps you saw him in in PHX during the failed UAL merger attempt, where he and Mowery were giddily holding hands as they ran off to file for their denied emergency hearing from the 9th......I will give it to the 9th that they got that one right.


Basically...he is that ignorant. The order specifically says LUP, plain as day, but in uscaba land the ignorant run the "we can trade a cost neutral contract for seniority" fantasies full force and in complete denial.

You're quoting old stuff there, pal. Since the MOU was voted in, including your vote, the whole picture has changed. I have to ask..is your heritage French? Your spelling indicates that.....or maybe just a lower education.

 

[Reed Richards]

Until a few days ago, I have been reading but not posting for almost 2 years, but I remain perplexed. What it is exactly is Judge Silver is ruling on? I know she is being asked for an injunction, but an injunction for what? To use the Nic in any contract proposal with US Airways? There are no current negotiations going on, in fact we are parked. I am aware of a merger about to occur, and that 75% of all US Airways pilots agreed to a process that would occur if that happens. In fact 98% of the PHX pilots agreed to the new process. Maybe it is the DFR she is to rule on. But what has the East done, other than be paid 15% less per year for almost a decade? What are the damages, other than to the stubborn East pilots for not accepting the Nic? I keep seeing here there is an LUP required, but why would she rule on that? I thought the question was if a DFR had already occurred. Is that what she is going to rule on, with damages? I don't get the "this must happen" stuff. Judges rule on acts, not predicted events. The East already did the dirty deed, or not. And if they did she would be ruling on damages.
My superhero powers are fading. My great intellect is failing. I just don't understand. If you go back 4 years on this forum, I nailed the ruling the Ninth would give. And I was a little in the dark on how Silver would initially rule, but in the end she did exactly as I hoped, but was afraid to predict. Maybe the POR will clear the air.
I guess after getting the DOJ, Congress, the Euro Union, the stockholders of both airlines, the BK judge, all the employee groups of both airlines, and the business press on board, Parker will then throw a fire bomb into the deal last minute imposing the Nic, and infuriating 25% of the airplane drivers of his new airline. Yep. That is what he will do, right before the big payday and ascension to the head of the biggest airline in history. He will do exactly that, because of his loyalty to all things pilots who are based in Phoenix. And comic books still cost 12 cents. RR

 

[mrbreeze]

Until a few days ago, I have been reading but not posting for almost 2 years, but I remain perplexed. What it is exactly is Judge Silver is ruling on? I know she is being asked for an injunction, but an injunction for what? To use the Nic in any contract proposal with US Airways? There are no current negotiations going on, in fact we are parked. I am aware of a merger about to occur, and that 75% of all US Airways pilots agreed to a process that would occur if that happens. In fact 98% of the PHX pilots agreed to the new process. Maybe it is the DFR she is to rule on. But what has the East done, other than be paid 15% less per year for almost a decade? What are the damages, other than to the stubborn East pilots for not accepting the Nic? I keep seeing here there is an LUP required, but why would she rule on that? I thought the question was if a DFR had already occurred. Is that what she is going to rule on, with damages? I don't get the "this must happen" stuff. Judges rule on acts, not predicted events. The East already did the dirty deed, or not. And if they did she would be ruling on damages.
My superhero powers are fading. My great intellect is failing. I just don't understand. If you go back 4 years on this forum, I nailed the ruling the Ninth would give. And I was a little in the dark on how Silver would initially rule, but in the end she did exactly as I hoped, but was afraid to predict. Maybe the POR will clear the air.
I guess after getting the DOJ, Congress, the Euro Union, the stockholders of both airlines, the BK judge, all the employee groups of both airlines, and the business press on board, Parker will then throw a fire bomb into the deal last minute imposing the Nic, and infuriating 25% of the airplane drivers of his new airline. Yep. That is what he will do, right before the big payday and ascension to the head of the biggest airline in history. He will do exactly that, because of his loyalty to all things pilots who are based in Phoenix. And comic books still cost 12 cents. RR

LOL!!!

 

[Pi brat]

I guess after getting the DOJ, Congress, the Euro Union, the stockholders of both airlines, the BK judge, all the employee groups of both airlines, and the business press on board, Parker will then throw a fire bomb into the deal last minute imposing the Nic, and infuriating 25% of the airplane drivers of his new airline. Yep. That is what he will do, right before the big payday and ascension to the head of the biggest airline in history. He will do exactly that, because of his loyalty to all things pilots who are based in Phoenix. And comic books still cost 12 cents. RR

Of course, there is no other logical outcome, just ask clear.

Good to see you back. I thought I saved one of your posts where you were right on all counts, but couldn't find it. I did find this one from prechill that is not looking good.

"Ripeness is a given- all parties of interest except one think so.
Injunction issued by July
POR August 31
West pilots take 330 captain bids in Fall.
USAPA gone by December
A few disgruntled AFO easties try to sue the APA and the company- case goes nowhere. Eventually, interest wanes as the AFOs retire, see the futility in their efforts and realize they need to purchase a small piece of land with a trailer on it to afford retirement.
A sad ending for such a bitter group"

 

[nevergiveup]

Wrong!

A seniority list has nothing to do with "allowing" a merger.

An arbitrator is not concerned about what is "acceptable" to the parties.

Judge Silver said usapa has to use the Nicolau unless they have an LUP. usapa does not have one.

My young friend, the completed merger, one that allows the company the most savings, will indeed require a seniority list!

 

[snapthis]

One out, one to go. USAPA is losing their friends in management.

 

[cleardirect]

My young friend, the completed merger, one that allows the company the most savings, will indeed require a seniority list!

Yes my old associate. But not required for a merger.

Now take the next step in your argument. What is the cheapest seniority list Parker could use? One that is accepted and has no restrictions? Or one that even the union admits needs heavy C&R to make fair? A seniority list that carries no liability or one that could cost him millions? A seniority list that he could implement at POR and put the two pilots groups together or one that he has to wait 18-24 months to see the savings?

The original point is a seniority list has nothing to do with the merger closing. The financial transaction does not depend on a seniority list. That is simply operational.

We will need a seniority list between US Airways and American. The problem for usapa is the US Airways list. without an LUP they have to use the nicolau. M/B can't be used because it is specifically stated it can't be used for mergers prior to Dec 2007. So how does usapa get to a combined list? They have refused baseball arbitration. There is no method for another arbitration. usapa has no LUP. There is no west.

 

[CaptChill]

There is no west.

Wow... if only that were true today, we all could have saved millions and a lot less annoyances!

 

[Phoenix]

Yes my old associate. But not required for a merger.

Now take the next step in your argument. What is the cheapest seniority list Parker could use? One that is accepted and has no restrictions? Or one that even the union admits needs heavy C&R to make fair? A seniority list that carries no liability or one that could cost him millions? A seniority list that he could implement at POR and put the two pilots groups together or one that he has to wait 18-24 months to see the savings?

The original point is a seniority list has nothing to do with the merger closing. The financial transaction does not depend on a seniority list. That is simply operational.

We will need a seniority list between US Airways and American. The problem for usapa is the US Airways list. without an LUP they have to use the nicolau. M/B can't be used because it is specifically stated it can't be used for mergers prior to Dec 2007. So how does usapa get to a combined list? They have refused baseball arbitration. There is no method for another arbitration. usapa has no LUP. There is no west.

The only basis for the Nic is the TA which becomes a nullity at the POR. The lists after the POR will be the same lists being used now and that are identified in the MOU. Inferences, innuendo, apparitions, and lollipops won't matter much. But we look forward to more lectures!

 

[luvthe9]

Wow... if only that were true today, we all could have saved millions and a lot less annoyances!

Amen. Maybe we could negotiate sending Traitor over to his pals.

 

[3dtv]

'cleardirect' said

We will need a seniority list between US Airways and American.
(WRONG, the MOU says listS)
The problem for usapa is the US Airways list. without an LUP they have to use the nicolau.(WRONG, the listS will be integrated and AOL can spend 10 years in court searchinf for a DFR) M/B can't be used because it is specifically stated it can't be used for mergers prior to Dec 2007.
WRONG. We all voted the mou for MB process voluntarily.
So how does usapa get to a combined list? They have refused baseball arbitration. There is no method for another arbitration. usapa has no LUP. There is no west.
USAPA follows the MOU, you get no harm and a nice raise and no windfall.

 

[nic4us]

The only basis for the Nic is the TA which becomes a nullity at the POR. The lists after the POR will be the same lists being used now and that are identified in the MOU. Inferences, innuendo, apparitions, and lollipops won't matter much. But we look forward to more lectures!

The only basis for separate ops in the present form is the TA, which becomes a nullity at POR.

I am not in the Nic at POR camp, as has been pointed out Kirby said "no", and I believe him.

However, and you can take this to the judge, the Nic just does not go away, same as the operating certificate we work under, single carrier status, bridge training, and every other completed tenent of the TA that is status quo.

 

[Pi brat]

One out, one to go. USAPA is losing their friends in management.

USAPA has no friends in management unless management needs something. Just another west baseless allegation. You feeling good about your "win?" Maybe he will take a few westies with him.

 

[nic4us]

'cleardirect' said

We will need a seniority list between US Airways and American.
(WRONG, the MOU says listS)
The problem for usapa is the US Airways list. without an LUP they have to use the nicolau.(WRONG, the listS will be integrated and AOL can spend 10 years in court searchinf for a DFR) M/B can't be used because it is specifically stated it can't be used for mergers prior to Dec 2007.
WRONG. We all voted the mou for MB process voluntarily.
So how does usapa get to a combined list? They have refused baseball arbitration. There is no method for another arbitration. usapa has no LUP. There is no west.
USAPA follows the MOU, you get no harm and a nice raise and no windfall.

10 years in court? It will never see the jury, the company ain't that stupid.

Once they see the filing they will settle faster than a usapian can scab his co-workers job!

 

[Pi brat]

..........is the TA, which becomes a nullity at POR.



.......................................... and every other completed tenent of the TA that is status quo.

Which is it, status quo or nullity? Can't have both, even though you really, really deserve it.