August 2013 Pilot Discussion

[cleardirect]

'cleardirect' said

We will need a seniority list between US Airways and American.
(WRONG, the MOU says listS)
The problem for usapa is the US Airways list. without an LUP they have to use the nicolau.(WRONG, the listS will be integrated and AOL can spend 10 years in court searchinf for a DFR) M/B can't be used because it is specifically stated it can't be used for mergers prior to Dec 2007.
WRONG. We all voted the mou for MB process voluntarily.
So how does usapa get to a combined list? They have refused baseball arbitration. There is no method for another arbitration. usapa has no LUP. There is no west.
USAPA follows the MOU, you get no harm and a nice raise and no windfall.

Read M/B. It can't be used for mergers before Dec 2007.

 

[Pi brat]

Read M/B. It can't be used for mergers before Dec 2007.

So two parties cannot AGREE to use something?

 

[Pi brat]

If only US Airways had closed the doors like you were going to we would have had a lot less annoyances. If only you easties were trustworthy and lived up to your word we all would have a lot less annoyances.

You would crawl under a rock we would have a lot less annoyances.

Had US gone away then AWA would have followed. Count your blessings and quit whining.

 

[cleardirect]

So two parties cannot AGREE to use something?

Can two parties agree to violate the law?

The law being the M/B.

How do you get around the very clear language:

(c) Application. - This section shall not apply to any covered transaction involving a covered air carrier that took place before the date of enactment of this Act [Dec. 26, 2007].

M/B will be used to integrate US Airways pilots and american Pilots. NOT east and west pilots. you can kick and scream all you want but laws do apply to you east pilots.

What did Kirby say? Hummel and the BPR went out on a limb to pass the MOU. What is the only thing that would be out on a limb for those guys? Seniority. Nicolau still applies. usapa does not have an LUP. M/B does not apply.

Simple facts. If you thought M/B would be used to integrate east west you were wrong or mislead.

 

[cleardirect]

You would crawl under a rock we would have a lot less annoyances.

Had US gone away then AWA would have followed. Count your blessings and quit whining.

Hey it has been 8 years I thought you told us westies you would all be gone soon. Another false statement from you easties.

 

[nycbusdriver]

Inferences, innuendo, apparitions, and lollipops won't matter much. But we look forward to more lectures!

No doubt Parker and Kirby are excited about hearing their next lecture, too! They do show remarkable restraint by not rolling their eyes and laughing in his face during the lectures.

 

[Pi brat]

Hey it has been 8 years I thought you told us westies you would all be gone soon. Another false statement from you easties.

I was in my early 40s then, so why would I have said that? Who is the liar?

 

[Pi brat]

Can two parties agree to violate the law?

The law being the M/B.

How do you get around the very clear language:




M/B will be used to integrate US Airways pilots and american Pilots. NOT east and west pilots. you can kick and scream all you want but laws do apply to you east pilots.

What did Kirby say? Hummel and the BPR went out on a limb to pass the MOU. What is the only thing that would be out on a limb for those guys? Seniority. Nicolau still applies. usapa does not have an LUP. M/B does not apply.

Simple facts. If you thought M/B would be used to integrate east west you were wrong or mislead.

And we would have an answer by April...........

Saying the same thing over and over again doesn't make it so in the real world.

How about addressing the questions I put to Nic. Or go crawl under a rock, either one.

 

[Claxon]

Kirby misspoke, the integration happened, the implementation never happened.

Of course he did. And the world is flat.

 

[Phoenix]

Can two parties agree to violate the law?

The law being the M/B.

How do you get around the very clear language:




M/B will be used to integrate US Airways pilots and american Pilots. NOT east and west pilots. you can kick and scream all you want but laws do apply to you east pilots.

What did Kirby say? Hummel and the BPR went out on a limb to pass the MOU. What is the only thing that would be out on a limb for those guys? Seniority. Nicolau still applies. usapa does not have an LUP. M/B does not apply.

Simple facts. If you thought M/B would be used to integrate east west you were wrong or mislead.

It's ridiculous posts like this that make me doubt you are really a pilot. Pilots are too egoistic to ever make such embarrassing, gasping pleas of imbecilic hope.

98% voted to develop a process consistent with MB. Congess could not care less about whether or not pilots have chosen such for ourselves. Call them. They might be in a meeting but I'm sure the secretaries will take a message for you.

 

[Claxon]

Working with someone that is thinking of publishing history of the Us Airways seniority dispute.

This is a rough draft timeline, any corrections would help.

Us Airways, America West Seniority Dispute rough draft timeline

2005-2006 US Airways, United in merger talks

2005 Us Airways, America West merge

May 2007 Arbitrator George Nicolau’ pilot seniority award was issued. The award was written with the assistance of two ALPA pilot neutrals, Steve Gillen United Airlines Pilot and Jim Brucia former Continental pilot now United Airlines Pilot.

2007 Us Airways pilots ask ALPA to review the award. ALPA president John Prater, former Continental pilot now United Airlines pilot, assigns ALPA vice president Paul Rice, United pilot, to review the award.

December 2007, Paul Rice, United pilot, delivers seniority list to Us Airways.

2007 A group of Us Airways pilots start a drive to start their own in house pilot union.

March 2008 ALPA puts the Us Airways ALPA Mec in trusteeship.

April 2008 In a National Mediation Board sanctioned election, Us Airways pilots oust ALPA and vote in USAPA as their official pilot representative.

May 2008 United calls off merger talk with Us Airways.

June 24, 2008 United Airlines starts furloughing pilots that will eventually lead to 1450 pilots at United on the street. Had a merger occurred using the Nicolau award derived with the assistance of United pilot neutrals, Us Airways pilots would have suffered the brunt of the furloughs and few United pilots would have been effected.

2008 America West pilots sue for DFR against USAPA.

2009 2010 US Airways and United restart merger talks.

April 2010 United Us Airways end merger talks.

June 2010 The 9th circuit court rules in USAPA’s favor.

 

[cleardirect]

It's ridiculous posts like this that make me doubt you are really a pilot. Pilots are too egoistic to ever make such embarrassing, gasping pleas of imbecilic hope.

98% voted to develop a process consistent with MB. Congess could not care less about whether or not pilots have chosen such for ourselves. Call them. They might be in a meeting but I'm sure the secretaries will take a message for you.

Talk about ridiculous posts.

If congress could care less about pilots and seniority. WHY THE HELL DID THEY PASS M/B???????????????????????????


It is you eastie that think laws don't apply to you. Arrogance boys. The bill is coming due soon.

 

[Claxon]

It is you eastie that think laws don't apply to you. Arrogance boys. The bill is coming due soon.

"IN THE UNITED STATES DISTRICT COURT
FOR THE DISTRICT OF ARIZONA
US Airways, Inc.,
Plaintiff,
vs.
Don Addington, et al.,
Defendants.
)))))))))))
No. CV-10-01570-PHX-ROS
JUDGMENT
Pursuant to the Court’s resolution of the motions for summary judgment,
IT IS ORDERED Counts I and III of the complaint are dismissed and judgment is
entered in favor of US Airline Pilots Association on Count II of the complaint. US Airline
Pilots Association’s seniority proposal does not breach its duty of fair representation
provided it is supported by a legitimate union purpose.
DATED this 11th day of October, 2012."

 

[nic4us]

That's right, the listS in effect except by section 10. The Nic and TA are not in section 10.

If it means MB, why add the consistent? I read it to be kind of like my divorce. We lived in NC and were governed by NC laws, but we AGREED to something consistent with other laws. Since we agreed to something else, and it didn't break a NC law, it was granted by a judge. I think for you to use the Nic you are going to have to have a judge order it. I don't think Parker will do it. We'll see.

We have not been and never will be merged at US.

Answer me this. One of the main rallying calls from the west was that the east reneged on a previously agreed upon process. I had some sympathy for that argument. Why isn't it the same for the west now? A member of AOL helped write the MOU, their attorneys recommended that the west pilots vote for it, they did and then promptly sued saying it was
illegal. What's the difference?

AOL did not say the MOU was illegal. AOL filed a DJ case with the court to ask them if it was illegal, and if so, grant injunction.

How can the SLI be "consistent with MB", yet violate MB? MB says not on mergers prior to 2007, in order to be "consistent" with that clause, MB will not govern the LCC pilot integration amongst ourselves, that has already been done via the Nic, and the Nic will stand.

sorry to hear you had to go through a divorce. I heard an east mouthpiece quoted as saying that the Nic was final and binding, but so was his marriage. He got that right, but was too stupid to realize it, his former wife may have changed her name, but she had to comply with the divorce decree. Uscaba wants to divorce the Nic, we get that, so the courts will set the terms and award who pays what alimony etc to whom.

 

[Claxon]

AOL did not say the MOU was illegal. AOL filed a DJ case with the court to ask them if it was illegal, and if so, grant injunction.

Who filed the delcaritory judgement case (your venacular)? I was not aware of a declaritory judgement case filed by army of lyingitas.