August 2013 Pilot Discussion

[Phoenix]

Where in the MOU is the East West issue addressed?

That question will have no relevance in proving a DFR or in securing an inunction.

 

[Metroyet]

That question will have no relevance in proving a DFR or in securing an inunction.

Then you can stop repeating the pointless fact that PHX ratified the agreement by 98%. They did so to start down the path of killing off their fake union, and grabbing whatever benefits the APA could provide them. The E/W issue is irrelevant to the MOU....which is not AT ALL saying it isn't relevant to the TA and the DFR.

 

[prechilill]

I found Stinky!

http://www.avtraining1.com/community/viewtopic.php?f=8&t=11


(A toolbox somewhere is missing a tool...)

 

[Phoenix]

Then you can stop repeating the pointless fact that PHX ratified the agreement by 98%. They did so to start down the path of killing off their fake union, and grabbing whatever benefits the APA could provide them. The E/W issue is irrelevant to the MOU....which is not AT ALL saying it isn't relevant to the TA and the DFR.

Don't fret yourself. Judge Silver made it very clear how much USAPA is bound by the TA. I think you are stressed about the possibility of being bound by the MOU on the effective date.

 

[traderjake]

Then you can stop repeating the pointless fact that PHX ratified the agreement by 98%.

That's all he has to hang on to while his fantasy of rewriting the seniority list slips away.

 

[prechilill]

Then you can stop repeating the pointless fact that PHX ratified the agreement by 98%. They did so to start down the path of killing off their fake union, and grabbing whatever benefits the APA could provide them. The E/W issue is irrelevant to the MOU....which is not AT ALL saying it isn't relevant to the TA and the DFR.

Every west pilot needs to buy a basket...

 

[EastUS1]

Every west pilot needs to buy a basket...

Needless expense methinks. Not all west pilots are basket-cases. 🙂

 

[Metroyet]

Don't fret yourself. Judge Silver made it very clear how much USAPA is bound by the TA. I think you are stressed about the possibility of being bound by the MOU on the effective date.

Did the company AGREE to alter the TA or are you under the impression that USAPA can alter the agreement with impunity? How can the MOU bind East/west? These is no such parties to the agreement. Listen, if it was so simple, this would have ended long ago. You're going to trial again. Remember what happened last time? 90 minutes to guilty. Half of that time was probably spent on lunch.

 

[Phoenix]

Did the company AGREE to alter the TA or are you under the impression that USAPA can alter the agreement with impunity? How can the MOU bind East/west? These is no such parties to the agreement. Listen, if it was so simple, this would have ended long ago. You're going to trial again. Remember what happened last time? 90 minutes to guilty. Half of that time was probably spent on lunch.

No, the company agreed to make all previous agreements and status qou a nullity upon the effective date.

 

[cleardirect]

Speaking of votes, if Silver takes the liberty to change any part of the terms of the MOU, do any of the many signatory organizations and the many thousands of individual voters... well do they all have a right to a vote on the "actual MOU".. Judge Silver does seem to have an affection for "actual" things.

Read the MOU. That has already been thought of. You guys are playing checkers in a 3D chess world.

 

[cleardirect]

Judge Silver: "By my decree, the pilots of US Airways voted on a new contract that secretly contained a 6 year old bargaining position on seniority from their long gone previous union. They might have been told otherwise by their own NAC, Legal, and in the actual wording of the MOU they were voting on , but they did it none the less. Too bad, I decree that to be the list. I also decree that their previous process under the T/A is null and void, and that I can impose a list on them going forward. I am a judge, I supersede all bargaining between Companies and Labor. The NIC is the list. No conscious voting allowed. You all vote, only then do I actually rule what you voted on." RR

Would you care to think about your stated for a second?




Think about what being ripe means.





That is exactly what the ninth said had to happen. That is what you eastie have been telling us had to happen. So yes we vote the court decides.

 

[cleardirect]

<p>

USAPA stays alive to represent US Airways pilots in the MB like process until a final product is rendered. USAPA stays alive as an organization as long as the Officers deem it necessary. Read the CBL. There are no tears being shed over the demise of USAPA, rather only tears of joy that it was able to fend off the NIC. RR

The usapa C&BL can sau anything they want. They do not trump federal law. When the NMB rules the APA to be our bargaining agent, usapa disappears. No more officers, no more board, no more dues, no more bank accounts.

Take the time to read the APA/TWA arbitration. A couple interesting tidbits in there. The one that you need to pay attention to is footnote 9.


The only thing you were able to do is delay the Nicolau. But that delay cost you hundreds of millions of dollars.

 

[cleardirect]

Clear, your thoughts please sir.

What was the result?

usapa agreed to dismiss the case because they had no case. Why do you continue to bring up usapa failures?

 

[cleardirect]

Where in the MOU is the East West issue addressed?

It is not.

From usapa's filing

81. Admits that the MOU provides a process for integrating seniority between
the pilots of US Airways and American Airlines that generally incorporates the principles
of the McCaskill Bond Amendment. USAPA avers, in particular, that neither the MOU
nor the future Joint Collective Bargaining Agreement (&ldquo;JCBA&rdquo😉 would provide any basis
for changing the existing two-list seniority system at US Airways except through the
process provided in the MOU. USAPA otherwise denies the allegations of &para;81.

Even usapa says that the MOU is used to integrate pilots of US Airways and Amercian. It says nothing about east and west pilots.

Second if as you easties all point to if the MOU can't change the listS and M/B can't be used to integrate INTRA union mergers (for you easties that means east/west) or merger that happened before 2007. How exactly does usapa plan to get an integrated list in a fair and equitable way?

You have refused baseball style arbitration. Imposing your will is not a fair process. How do you fix the problem?

The easiest quickest way for the court is to order the already completed and agreed to arbitration list.

 

[cleardirect]

"While the Court has concluded that such actions do not come
within the purview of RICO, It may well be that a Court of appropriate
jurisdiction will conclude that such actions do constitute violations of state
law and that injunctive relief is warranted to prevent this type of conduct
from continuing."

Page 45 Prozac breath.

http://leonidas.cact...Final order.pdf

Case dismissed. If usapa had a case they would have filed in state court. Tells Mike did usapa even file in state court? Also tell us what the court of appeals said about this case? Why do you insist on reliving usapa's failures?