August 2013 Pilot Discussion

[EastUS1]

I would agree they both suck. The sequestration is perfect for both sides. They can blame each other for nothing getting done and then go on recess and continue doing....nothing. I remember when my son was in cub scouts (a long time ago). The cub scouts acted more mature than most of our politicians. Maybe what we need is a den mother to kick a-- and take names and teach civility and responsibility to name a few of the things lacking in todays politics.

Indeed Bob. I think anyone that's passed the half-century+ mark or more would necessarily agree. It's impossible to watch essentially just re-runs of the same old BS, time afer time, and not see through it all.

 

[Pi brat]

No more Warped that one whom toes the USAPA line in one breath and claims not to agree with them the next. At least I'm always consistent. I view the situation as it is. As it actually exists in reality... without resorting to the self-serving filter of a hypocrite.

You are wrong again hypocrite breath. I have never towed the USAPA line, I call things as I see them, on each individual item. Ask end of alpa, he and I have gone around a few times about USAPA. Or Claxon, he has called me a waffler many times. It's just like I said about politics above. If I agree with ANYTHING USAPA does, you guys will ignore what I said about the C18, DOH and the SS #s. If I say something to support a west position the east hardliners paint me as a waffler. You guys are all the same. Had you been hired at US you would be a hardline USAPIAN. I can tell from the tone of your posts.

Are you JB? You sound like him. You are consistent, consistently an ahole. Maybe you should take recall to the east.

 

[EastUS1]

Pi brat, on 26 July 2013 - 06:50 AM, said:

Man you are warped. Get a grip.

No more Warped that one whom toes the USAPA line in one breath and claims not to agree with them the next. At least I'm always consistent. I view the situation as it is. As it actually exists in reality... without resorting to the self-serving filter of a hypocrite.

"No more Warped"..? "I view the situation as it is. As it actually exists in reality..."...Really? You "may" wish to seek out second and/or even more opinions on that. 😉 Let's just take this bit: "The death of the twitching stillborn.."? Just fyi; the term stillborn describes tragic arrival into the world in a deceased condition...Very little "twitching" is generally associated with such sadness. "but the 9th didn't understand the level of depravity USAPA embraced."..? Wow! Per: "At least I'm always consistent."..? Umm...no argument there. 🙂

For purely the sake of additional chuckles: Would you be so kind as to specifically note where Pi's been at all hypocritical?

 

[EastUS1]

I miss George.

He was right. Republican or Democrat, they(really 99.999% of us) want the same things. Money, material possessions, power and sex. People just use different ideologies to get and justify it.

Yep...and we've our species sad history of incessant warfare and generalized, wholesale insanity to show for it.

"The older I get the more of a Libertarian I get,.." That pretty much first hit me around 40ish as well, and I've found less and less use for any childish fantasies about the government knows best, and really cares about the People, ever since.

 

[cleardirect]

If its dismissed it will be DOH with C&R

Explain?

How exactly do you think usapa can impose DOH on the west?

There is no more negotiations with the company. The APA will not accept DOH.

Even usapa is saying that integration will be done by M/B (not legal).

So just how do you expect to DOH if judge Silver dismisses this case?

 

[Claxon]

You are wrong again hypocrite breath. I have never towed the USAPA line, I call things as I see them, on each individual item. Ask end of alpa, he and I have gone around a few times about USAPA. Or Claxon, he has called me a waffler many times. It's just like I said about politics above. If I agree with ANYTHING USAPA does, you guys will ignore what I said about the C18, DOH and the SS #s. If I say something to support a west position the east hardliners paint me as a waffler. You guys are all the same. Had you been hired at US you would be a hardline USAPIAN. I can tell from the tone of your posts.

Are you JB? You sound like him. You are consistent, consistently an ahole. Maybe you should take recall to the east.

You are a good guy PI.

 

[Claxon]

Now that you have exposed yourself. Which inside usapa shill are you?

How is it that out of the blue you post about dismissing with prejudice and surprised, surprise what does usapa filed that very same day?



Something tells me that you are an insider set here as a shill for usapa.



BTW. Is Shamanski just stupid or incapable of understanding court orders?




The court said the west has a claim.
The court said our claim is ripe.
The court said it is not a minor dispute.
The court scheduled a trial so the court does have jurisdiction.
The court addressed res judicada.

6 of the 10 defenses were addressed by the court. Why would usapa make a fool of themselves continuing down a failed path? Stupid or incompetent legal advice?

As Scott Kirby likes to say to you when you begin to lecture....."NO"

 

[nevergiveup]

Explain?

How exactly do you think usapa can impose DOH on the west?

There is no more negotiations with the company. The APA will not accept DOH.

Even usapa is saying that integration will be done by M/B (not legal).

So just how do you expect to DOH if judge Silver dismisses this case?

Plz reference where APA has stated they will not accept DOH.

 

[traderjake]

Plz reference where APA has stated they will not accept DOH.

A member of the APA Scope Committee told me so on the jumpseat.

I can hold bottom 320 Reserve Captain, DOH would make me a 737 Captain blockholder in the top 10% and a 767 Captain blockholder in Miami.

Do you think the Amercan pilots will accept that?

 

[Phoenix]

Anyone expecting a windfall of seniority to be caused by the merger will be sorely disappointed.

 

[Phoenix]

A member of the APA Scope Committee told me so on the jumpseat.

I can hold bottom 320 Reserve Captain, DOH would make me a 737 Captain blockholder in the top 10% and a 767 Captain blockholder in Miami.

Do you think the Amercan pilots will accept that?

If the APA were to allow such a windfall they would undoubtedly go the way of ALPA at USAir.

 

[traderjake]

Anyone expecting a windfall of seniority to be caused by the merger will be sorely disappointed.

That's why you're disappointed with Nicolau Award.

 

[snapthis]

Well, isn't that special. I know that the AOL is "special", but they are SO special that they deserve their own seat, with their own lawyers, but only if they want to, at the MB table. Of course they do. Now, as I pointed out to old cactus boy, I haven't agreed with much that USAPA has done, so using their logic I deserve my own table and lawyers at the MB table. Hell, lets have all 10,000+ of us meet at a Holiday Inn somewhere and knock it out, how does that sound?

What an entitlement attitude.

I attended the hearing in May where Judge Silver encouraged West representation at the MB table with the realization we have no representation otherwise. She's smells a rat.

I'm looking forward to Sept.

Not only we expect to be at the table, we expect:

Plaintiffs respectfully ask the Court for the following relief:
133. Judgment that USAPA violated the duty of fair representation by, among other things, entering into a contract, the MOU, that provided substantially better wages for East Pilots without requiring their agreement to implement the Nicolau Award list;

Plaintiffs respectfully ask the Court for the following relief:
133. Judgment that USAPA violated the duty of fair representation by, among other things, entering into a contract, the MOU, that provided substantially better wages for East Pilots without requiring their agreement to implement the Nicolau Award list;

134. Judgment that USAPA is continuing to violate the duty of fair representation by insisting that it will use a date-of–hire seniority list rather than the Nicolau Award list;
135. Judgment that US Airways, with the consent of USAPA, is in breach of the implied covenant of the Transition Agreement;
136.An injunction requiring Defendants to conduct seniority integration according to the MOU procedures but using the seniority order in the Nicolau Award list to order the US Airways pilots;
137. Judgment that the West Pilots are entitled to an order declaring that they have party status and the right (but not the obligation) to participate fully (with counsel of their own choice) in the MOU Seniority Integration process; and
138. Judgment awarding Plaintiffs the reasonable litigation expenses, including attorneys fees, incurred since 2008 protecting the fair representation rights of the US Airways Pilots.
Dated this 25th day of July, 2013.

 

[Pi brat]

I attended the hearing in May where Judge Silver encouraged West representation at the MB table with the realization we have no representation otherwise. She's smells a rat.

I'm looking forward to Sept.

Not only we expect to be at the table, we expect:

Plaintiffs respectfully ask the Court for the following relief:
133. Judgment that USAPA violated the duty of fair representation by, among other things, entering into a contract, the MOU, that provided substantially better wages for East Pilots without requiring their agreement to implement the Nicolau Award list;

Plaintiffs respectfully ask the Court for the following relief:
133. Judgment that USAPA violated the duty of fair representation by, among other things, entering into a contract, the MOU, that provided substantially better wages for East Pilots without requiring their agreement to implement the Nicolau Award list;

134. Judgment that USAPA is continuing to violate the duty of fair representation by insisting that it will use a date-of–hire seniority list rather than the Nicolau Award list;
135. Judgment that US Airways, with the consent of USAPA, is in breach of the implied covenant of the Transition Agreement;
136.An injunction requiring Defendants to conduct seniority integration according to the MOU procedures but using the seniority order in the Nicolau Award list to order the US Airways pilots;
137. Judgment that the West Pilots are entitled to an order declaring that they have party status and the right (but not the obligation) to participate fully (with counsel of their own choice) in the MOU Seniority Integration process; and
138. Judgment awarding Plaintiffs the reasonable litigation expenses, including attorneys fees, incurred since 2008 protecting the fair representation rights of the US Airways Pilots.
Dated this 25th day of July, 2013.

But at times you guys have argued that only USAPA has the right/responsibility to represent you. You want it both ways.

USAPA does thing much differently than I would. I've had major disagreements with them. Should I get separate representation? How about 924PS? Traderjake? Other east pilots that voted for ALPA and have been ostracized?

 

[cleardirect]

Plz reference where APA has stated they will not accept DOH.

Please reference where they said they would accept DOH. What the APA has said is that there will be in negotiated agreement and this will go to arbitration.

With the history of the APA and of how they treated TWA you have any thoughts the APA will accept DOH? You think the APA would accept DOH from US Airways and not expect a demand from the TWA guys for the same thing.

Using DOH would place 85% of the east pilots in the top 50% of a combined list. Leaving 6500 American pilots and only 500 east pilots in the bottom 50% Think APA will go for that?

DOH places 2500 east pilots in the top 5000 slot. think the APA will accept DOH? DOH places east F/O senior to 6000 (70%) American pilots. Think APA will negotiate that windfall for you east pilots?