August 2013 Pilot Discussion

[dca319]

The relatively small number of furloughed West pilots that chose not to take employment out East must all be doing really well in other endeavors. They chose not to come East, where guys like "Dave" can now hold 190 C/O. Good for them. It's really too bad being martyred here in West postings pays them no royalties. RR

Yes. Those left seats in the 190 are going like hot cakes.

 

[Crzipilot]

You mean, the reduction bid that just came out? 28 less east pilots on it? That one? 😀

Interesting, where there are 28 less east pilots.....BUT yet there will be 22 or 25 new captains. Strange how numbers work. If you actually look at the reductions and the vacancies, you will see there are more capt. vacancies than there are reductions. So, 20+ more capts..... They are simply not back filling those that are retiring or leaving, old trick US has played for 10+ years, and I imagine will continue to do so.

How the latest West bid? How many Capt. vacancies?

 

[snapthis]

Doug Parker cut your unprofitable LAS flying and furloughed. Get it straight, not the east.

Whatever

That goes along the lines of bankrupt US Airways buying HP hiring Parker and moving the HQ to Tempe.

 

[flyingskier]

Yes. Those left seats in the 190 are going like hot cakes.

You wish you could bid it.... poser...

FS

 

[snapthis]

You wish you could bid it.... poser...

FS

You know something we don't smart guy?

 

[prechilill]

Interesting, where there are 28 less east pilots.....BUT yet there will be 22 or 25 new captains. Strange how numbers work. If you actually look at the reductions and the vacancies, you will see there are more capt. vacancies than there are reductions. So, 20+ more capts..... They are simply not back filling those that are retiring or leaving, old trick US has played for 10+ years, and I imagine will continue to do so.

How the latest West bid? How many Capt. vacancies?

None yet. None. Hmmm. Well, at least we will get the NIC here real soon. 330 here we come baby!!!

 

[prechilill]

Sounds like one of those headlines in the NY Mayor race. Wait a minute, oh..."winner!"My impression of our pilot's reactions is mostly shrugs. More of the same. It's now a game of legal chutes and ladders. We either have this ended for now by Silver, and the lawsuits simply move down the line following a JCBA; or she imposes a list or gives preferred seating, and we go back up the legal chain, with even more legal actions filed. Like Phoenix, I wonder just what the tipping point would be for the other parties on changes to the MOU. APA seems to fear any kind of seniority litigation. Having apparently resolved their St. Louis issues, would they really want other East groups now suing for separate representation outside the RLA, like the West Class is asking for? Silver scheduled her trial for late September for possibly 3 reasons. It simply was the proper timeline, she wanted to wait until after the POR to impose the NIC on a ripe contract, or she simply wanted this to all go away when LOA 96 dies. I am betting on the path of least resistance and least pushback in the courts. I bet she spends a few hours with the parties, admonishes the East to play nice, and dismisses. RR

Only in a USAPian brain they believe following the law is more risky than dealing with the "east pilots" LOL
I love it!!!!

 

[Reed Richards]

Yes. Those left seats in the 190 are going like hot cakes.

Next Jan a 2 year pilot can earn $114/hr. in that seat. 2 year pilot. Even at 73 hours it's not a bad gig, and get to fly a modern, state of the art aircraft that most seem to really like (other than the pay if you have 20+ years already) I hear the Company really wants them in PHX, and I don't mean that as a dig. I have not really studied the protections under the MOU to see how that could be done. But considering the 190 is not included in the block hour protections, it might actually work out well for PHX, and maybe (to your delight) not so well for the East. I bring it up only as a point of discussion. I am told to expect one more large bid on the East that includes the C/O slots that were briefed to the check airmen to be in the latest bid, and were not. Maybe this is it, the expected year (or two) of stagnation for us all while attrition shrinks the airline 10-15% or so. Who did not see that coming. And prechilli, note we are now to retire extra 76s this year and take delivery of at least 3 Extra 330s. Look at the 330 on the bid, reductions in blocks but additions in pilots. RR

 

[traderjake]

Only in a USAPian brain they believe following the law is more risky than dealing with the "east pilots"

Yeah, I bet the threat of being sued by East pilots has APA shaking in their boots.

 

[Reed Richards]

Yeah, I bet the threat of being sued by East pilots has APA shaking in their boots.

Did not mean that as a threat, but that is exactly how it read. Simply meant they don't want ANY litigation. But score one for you. My bad. RR

 

[Keroseneuser]

Yes. Those left seats in the 190 are going like hot cakes.

From talking with folks about it, The 190 going so junior seems to be more of a function of where it's based and what it flies. Last time I looked at a 190 schedule it is pretty much nothing but shuttle. Lately I have seen a few in clt and rdu, so maybe the schedules are shifting a bit more to what they were in 2008 and 09 with more than just 5 legs a day between lga and bos. Right now I think the junior Capt. on the 190 was hired 18 months ago. One of the 99 hired guys told me he had zero interest in commuting anymore but would bid it if it showed up in the CLT base again. Once this thing gets put all together, however that may occur at some point in the future, I think the PHX guys will jump on whatever Capt. bid they see that comes up. That is something that the east guys no longer do. Quality of life issues seem to be the most important thing anymore. But then again most are like me and spent at least 10 years in forced commutes. Something that the AWA guys have never done in any large quantity. I know there are commuters out west, but until you have experienced an airline with 7 bases and constant base shifts and being pushed here and there you only think you know what commuting is like. For me commuting again would be like entering the seven layers of hell....in a speedo!!

 

[Pi brat]

Next Jan a 2 year pilot can earn $114/hr. in that seat. 2 year pilot. Even at 73 hours it's not a bad gig, and get to fly a modern, state of the art aircraft that most seem to really like (other than the pay if you have 20+ years already) I hear the Company really wants them in PHX, and I don't mean that as a dig. I have not really studied the protections under the MOU to see how that could be done. But considering the 190 is not included in the block hour protections, it might actually work out well for PHX, and maybe (to your delight) not so well for the East. I bring it up only as a point of discussion. I am told to expect one more large bid on the East that includes the C/O slots that were briefed to the check airmen to be in the latest bid, and were not. Maybe this is it, the expected year (or two) of stagnation for us all while attrition shrinks the airline 10-15% or so. Who did not see that coming. And prechilli, note we are now to retire extra 76s this year and take delivery of at least 3 Extra 330s. Look at the 330 on the bid, reductions in blocks but additions in pilots. RR

Don't have the MOU in front of me but pretty sure that they do count toward block hour requirements if placed west, but not east.

 

[cleardirect]

The "competent" lawyers stated the basis of the West's particular type of standing, all by themselves. You still haven't read it enough times.

Do you know the question?

So in your feeble mind simply repeating the complain qualifies your lawyer as clever and subtly calling the west lawyer incompetent?

What you think that the judge is incompetent too because she missed it the first time in the original complaint?


How about this from the court?

III. Motion to Certify Class
The West Pilots have moved to certify a class and US Airways has filed notice that
it agrees certification is appropriate. (Doc. 11, 40). The Court stayed briefing on this issue
pending resolution of the other motions. (Doc. 43). The class certification motion must now
be briefed, but USAPA should consider whether it is wise to oppose the motion. In the
previous litigation, USAPA vigorously opposed a class certification motion but that
opposition was not well-reasoned. (CV-10-1570, Doc. 111). Thus, the order granting
certification was straightforward. (CV-10-1570, Doc. 125). Absent substantially better
arguments than what it presented last time, USAPA should consider consenting to
certification.


Did you miss the substantially better argument part? I would say that the court telling usapa failed in their filings would be more devastating than repeating a statement.

 

[Phoenix]

You wish you could bid it.... poser...

FS

yep, they doth protest over much

 

[Pi brat]

Maybe it was for a period of time. Since by deliberatly forcing seperate ops, the east has in effect forced a fence and DOH, I'd say the Nic plus about 100k for each furloughed west pilot should be getting closer to fair 🙂

Bean

You disappoint me bean. I gave you more credit than that.

True or false? USAPA never completed a DOH sli? The company never negotiated section 22?There was no mandatory time line on the TA and ALPA told the west pilotd this?