August 2013 Pilot Discussion

[Reed Richards]

I understand PHX only has one bid a year, or as needed. Imagine the desert chaos when a one base system bid has three classes of pay: AB, 75, and 190. Talk about musical chairs. Talk about how important seniority is. RR

 

[prechilill]

I understand PHX only has one bid a year, or as needed. Imagine the desert chaos when a one base system bid has three classes of pay: AB, 75, and 190. Talk about musical chairs. Talk about how important seniority is. RR

The 75 can be easily taken out of PHX the day after the POR. There is no "chaos" to be endured by the company as you say, the MOU and the recent judicial relief by Silver allows the company to move anything and everything around the system as they please. All Parker needs is 1600 west pilots and 2,500 east pilots- he's close to that number for the west and has a nice cushion for the east- no worries there. And after POR the biggest thorn in Parker's side will be neutralized as there is a new sheriff in town (APA). Heck, Parker is sitting pretty! On to bigger things!

 

[Reed Richards]

And more trivia. When Judge Silver affirms her "ripe" ruling by imposing the NIC and a ratified contract East and West, the Company will be immediately required to award 190 and 757 flying to the West based on previous binding Federal arbitration. RR

 

[cleardirect]

Some might be careful what they wish for. Seems the 190 might be a better737 replacement in PHX than the A321s the company was forced into using under the TA.

After 6-7 years of having the 190 exclusively on the east coast. After the west pilots have asked and demanded our share of the 190 and being told never in PHX. Now the company is suddenly going to put them in PHX.

Your lack of logic always amazes me.

Rumor I heard was the west 319 would go back east and the east 321 would move to PHX. Couple reasons. West does more trans con. East does more short commuter hops. Other reason is lower repair costs to the 321 out west.

 

[cleardirect]

Consider it rumor, as I am sure you all do anything I say. Jumpseated home to PIT yesterday, F/O said he had Isom visit the cockpit last week. Said they can make a lot more moneys with the 190s in PHX, and that they are wasting (my words twice removed) the bigger metal there. I believe very little crewroom stuff, but this one connects the dots. RR

Answer this question.

If the company is wasting metal in PHX why have they not moved the 190 to PHX for the last 6-7 years? The pay rate was the same.

Where is that 190 going to fly from PHX to what cities? Consider the east coast vs. west coast and proximity to the hub.

 

[Reed Richards]

The 75 can be easily taken out of PHX the day after the POR. There is no "chaos" to be endured by the company as you say, the MOU and the recent judicial relief by Silver allows the company to move anything and everything around the system as they please. All Parker needs is 1600 west pilots and 2,500 east pilots- he's close to that number for the west and has a nice cushion for the east- no worries there. And after POR the biggest thorn in Parker's side will be neutralized as there is a new sheriff in town (APA). Heck, Parker is sitting pretty! On to bigger things!

So you seem to agree. Parker (after the POR) can move Group III and II aircraft out of PHX and replace them with Group I? And he can do the same out East, except the 190 does not count. Did I quote the language correctly? RR

 

[Reed Richards]

Answer this question.

If the company is wasting metal in PHX why have they not moved the 190 to PHX for the last 6-7 years? The pay rate was the same.

Where is that 190 going to fly from PHX to what cities? Consider the east coast vs. west coast and proximity to the hub.

Sure. The difference is before they could not move the West metal East. Soon they can. Bus East, 190 West. The 190 already does PHL and CLT to the some of the islands and Mexico. What city West of DEN is now out of range from PHX with the 190? I am asking. RR

 

[cleardirect]

Sure. The difference is before they could not move the West metal East. Soon they can. Bus East, 190 West. The 190 already does PHL and CLT to the some of the islands and Mexico. What city West of DEN is now out of range from PHX with the 190? I am asking. RR

There was nothing stopping the company from moving the 190 prior to the MOU. The 190 were not part of the block mins. There was no restriction to moving those aircraft.

It is not a matter of range.

The west has asked for 6-7 years for our share of the 190 flying, the answer from east flight ops management has allows been not in PHX. They will not make money. So you are saying the the east flight ops management conspired with usapa to deprive the west of 190 flying for the last several years?

Now all of a sudden you think it makes sense to put those 190 in PHX? Just another lie from management?

 

[prechilill]

So you seem to agree. Parker (after the POR) can move Group III and II aircraft out of PHX and replace them with Group I? And he can do the same out East, except the 190 does not count. Did I quote the language correctly? RR

The 190 doesn't count, except for the fact you can call it a "holding pen" for current east new hire pilots. After the POR there isn't going to be an east or west list for that particular aircraft because there is not going to be any tail numbers to differentiate who is flying which aircraft. It all comes down to the 1600/ 2500 number (and that's approximate, the total number of pilots needed to fly the respective block mins is probably a little higher)- everything else is frosting. So why would Parker keep 7 Boeing 757s in PHX? Why would we fly people to Hawaii from DFW, LAX and PHX? The AW 75's will have a better place flying out of the east and I would be shocked if Parker doesn't move them out of PHX. And he wouldn't even have to add a single aircraft to replace them really in the "PHX base" because again, he just has to meet the 460k block hours. Just fly a couple more 320's through PHX and bingo! Done.

 

[Reed Richards]

The 190 doesn't count, except for the fact you can call it a "holding pen" for current east new hire pilots. After the POR there isn't going to be an east or west list for that particular aircraft because there is not going to be any tail numbers to differentiate who is flying which aircraft. It all comes down to the 1600/ 2500 number (and that's approximate, the total number of pilots needed to fly the respective block mins is probably a little higher)- everything else is frosting. So why would Parker keep 7 Boeing 757s in PHX? Why would we fly people to Hawaii from DFW, LAX and PHX? The AW 75's will have a better place flying out of the east and I would be shocked if Parker doesn't move them out of PHX. And he wouldn't even have to add a single aircraft to replace them really in the "PHX base" because again, he just has to meet the 460k block hours. Just fly a couple more 320's through PHX and bingo! Done.

Not quite. He would have to fly a "couple of more 320's flown by WEST crews" through PHX to meet the block hour requirements. As to the 190 flying out West, a block hour is a block hour. Look, I don't really have a clue what will happen, nor do I have any grasp of marketing to argue any case. But I was just surprised to see the 190 could count towards your block hours. That does not mean it will happen, and forgive me for running with some scenarios. RR

 

[Phoenix]

Do you enjoy being stupid?

For obvious reasons, I am compelled to take notice of your weighty opinion in that regard.

 

[dca319]

After 6-7 years of having the 190 exclusively on the east coast. After the west pilots have asked and demanded our share of the 190 and being told never in PHX. Now the company is suddenly going to put them in PHX.

Your lack of logic always amazes me.

Rumor I heard was the west 319 would go back east and the east 321 would move to PHX. Couple reasons. West does more trans con. East does more short commuter hops. Other reason is lower repair costs to the 321 out west.

You are correct about the 319s. They are not profitable doing long legs and will be moved east as quickly as possible post POR.

 

[prechilill]

Not quite. He would have to fly a "couple of more 320's flown by WEST crews" through PHX to meet the block hour requirements. As to the 190 flying out West, a block hour is a block hour. Look, I don't really have a clue what will happen, nor do I have any grasp of marketing to argue any case. But I was just surprised to see the 190 could count towards your block hours. That does not mean it will happen, and forgive me for running with some scenarios. RR

The MOU document I am looking at states the 190 cannot count towards block hours. Where did you see/ hear that?

 

[EastUS1]

prechilill December 2007: "Ho ho ho! St nic is coming to town!"

Well, at least we will get the NIC here real soon.

You just couldn't make this stuff up folks. 🙂

 

[Reed Richards]

The MOU document I am looking at states the 190 cannot count towards block hours. Where did you see/ hear that?

Prechilillll, please read my previous post with the cut and paste. As I read it, 190 flying CANNOT count as minimum block hours on the East, but CAN on the West. I have been wrong before, so I await your correction. RR