August 2013 Pilot Discussion

[lynyrdskynyrd]

Arbitration makes a wholesale mockery of any supposed deceny, morality and rational process within the human race.....or perhaps just sadly serves to vividly illustrate the deficits therein.

Substitute 'The human animal' for 'arbitration' and I agree 100 percent.

Edit. Thinking back on it, we set ourselves up for this. If we truly believed in arbitration, we wouldn't have had any need for this dual ratification bullshit. Had the west been on the percieved short end of the stick, it's 'options' would have been more limited, but that's really beside the point.

 

[cactusboy53]

1) Not from the lack of your trying to do so though. You just haven't been successful in your attempts.
2) That's excellent news! But "free"..? You really needn't be so generous, since, regardless of your being a mighty "spartan" and all; I'll insist on some respectable stakes. So...When shall we schedule you to "instruct" the "lesson in manners and humility"/flying wager? 🙂

SYIC

 

[lynyrdskynyrd]

We're seeing each other in court because we were all stupid enough to think dual ratification was the way to go. It's to easy to point fingers after the fact. We're all human animals, and we all set it up this way. I can't believe I was dumb enough to ever think that was a good idea, but admittedly, I did.

 

[EastUS1]

We're seeing each other in court because we were all stupid enough to think dual ratification was the way to go. It's to easy to point fingers after the fact. We're all human animals, and we all set it up this way. I can't believe I was dumb enough to ever think that was a good idea, but admittedly, I did.

You were no more individually responsible for this mess than myself, or most any of us LS. "We", both groups/etc, all did this to ourselves. A simple inability for two sets of supposed adults to share even the slightest mutual respect, general understanding, and come to some workable course of action. Oh well....We sure ain't inventin' nuthin' new in human nature with any of this sorry mess...sadly enough.

 

[EastUS1]

SYIC

No you won't. Courtrooms teach nothing of "manners and humility". Heck! If they did; it logically follows that lawyers would be among the most decent people to be found anywhere. 🙂 For any such instructional endeavors as "lessons" in "manners and humility"; the real world's required. All I perceive ever coming out of courtrooms are various blasts of toxic, hot air, a great deal of lying and conniving, the extreme twisting and outright perversion of any semblance of actual logic or deceny of any sort, and well...perhaps even a faint whiff of sulfur and brimstone. 😉

 

[cactusboy53]

You were no more individually responsible for this mess than myself, or most any of us LS. "We", both groups/etc, all did this to ourselves. A simple inability for two sets of supposed adults to share even the slightest mutual respect, general understanding, and come to some workable course of action. Oh well....We sure ain't inventin' nuthin' new in human nature with any of this sorry mess...sadly enough.

So simple that ANYONE (other than the McKleary Kamp for Kids) gets it: Your representative made an agreement. You by association made the same agreement. DONE. Keep & stand on your word. Otherwise the company makes all the financial gains because they are "neutral"....oh wait, they did.

Ask the guy retiring this month out of the A330: Money lost? About $750,000.00. Ooops.....Seniority Matters? Well, only if it costs 3/4 of a million dollars.

 

[cactusboy53]

No you won't. Courtrooms teach nothing of "manners and humility". Heck! If they did; it logically follows that lawyers would be among the most decent people to be found anywhere. 🙂 For any such instructional endeavors as "lessons" in "manners and humility"; the real world's required. All I perceive ever coming out of courtrooms are various blasts of toxic, hot air, a great deal of lying and conniving, the extreme twisting and perversion of any semblance of actual logic or deceny of any sort, and well...perhaps even a faint whiff of sulfur and brimstone. 😉

Don't get MAD, get STUPID. Nevermind.

 

[EastUS1]

Don't get MAD, get STUPID. Nevermind.

Ah! yet more enlightened "instruction" in "manners and humility"? 🙂

 

[EastUS1]

...Seniority Matters? Well, only if it costs 3/4 of a million dollars.

Well ma'am; we've established what you are. Now? We're just haggling over price. 😉

So what's "Integrity" ever cost any man? The real-life Spartans with King Leonidas at Thermopylae gave their lives for it. But.... In your case and that of the bulk of your most devout "spartans"....perhaps just the price of T-shirts, proclaiming such supposedly "Matters" to you? 🙂

Per your brash: "Keep & stand on your word. " Umm...Would it be OK to just print up some waay-cool-dude T-shirts instead? I hear that's all one needs to do to magically gain unlimited "Integrity"? 🙂 I mean, at least try to be serious for a moment here. First; you're whining about the vast sums of money not gained by others, Secondly; you're then implying such wasn't done on the basis of any principles or "word" of any kind? Do you even make the slightest bit of sense to yourself? 😉

 

[Pi brat]

So simple that ANYONE (other than the McKleary Kamp for Kids) gets it: Your representative made an agreement. You by association made the same agreement. DONE. Keep & stand on your word. Otherwise the company makes all the financial gains because they are "neutral"....oh wait, they did.

Ask the guy retiring this month out of the A330: Money lost? About $750,000.00. Ooops.....Seniority Matters? Well, only if it costs 3/4 of a million dollars.

The first agreement was the transition agreement, which called for dual ratification.

LS hit the nail on the head. I was told by a west guy that you guys were happy with that because you thought YOU might have to use it.

Could you look me in the eye and say that if the west had a very bad outcome that you would have accepted the Kirby and cemented your SLI loss for it? That's what we were looking at, no matter what the method. The company and USAPA have not spent one day negotiating section 22.

 

[CaptChill]

We're seeing each other in court because we were all stupid enough to think dual ratification was the way to go. It's to easy to point fingers after the fact. We're all human animals, and we all set it up this way. I can't believe I was dumb enough to ever think that was a good idea, but admittedly, I did.

While I don't always agree with everything you write, a lot I do.. You are singly the most thoughtful west poster on this forum. Thank you.

 

[Pi brat]

While I don't always agree with everything you write, a lot I do.. You are singly the most thoughtful west poster on this forum. Thank you.

Yes, he is.

 

[Claxon]

Ask the guy retiring this month out of the A330: Money lost? About $750,000.00. Ooops.....Seniority Matters? Well, only if it costs 3/4 of a million dollars.

Oh yes the guy who claims to be a good Christian on his tweets. You are a hypocrite.

The amendable date for the East pilots was December 31, 2009.
40 months. That would be a about 20 g's per month. You Clear and Snap, there are reasons why you could not get hired by a major airline, you are not honest.

 

[cleardirect]

personally I'd be embarrassed to walk on the property if I had stolen 15 years of my co workers seniority.

Yet you have not problem walking away from your agreement of binding arbitration.

But tell me, what was Dean Collelo's seniority?

Was Dave O'Dell senior to a furloughed pilots? What position could Dave O'Dell hold? What position could Monda hold?

Answer carefully I asked about seniority not longevity.

You do understand that ALPA merger policy is a SENIORITY integration correct? So arbitrators integrate SENIORITY. So no one stole 15 years from anyone. Unless you want to blame the old US air but they are gone. Good luck collecting from that entity.

 

[EastUS1]

personally I'd be embarrassed to walk on the property if I had stolen 15 years of my co workers seniority.

So no one stole 15 years from anyone.

Umm..."You do understand that" observation, you're so ineptly trying your best to set up a tornado-level, spinning defense against, came from an honest and decent working man, not within the pilot group? 🙂

Your greed-soaked BS's not so universally acceptable as you might wish to imagine.