August 2013 Pilot Discussion

[Claxon]

Yet you have not problem walking away from your agreement of binding arbitration.

Another west liar. No one walked away from anything. As Mr Kirby told you when you asked the nic question, "NO!"

"
“In the US Airways – America West case, it went to binding arbitration but there was a requirement as part of that that the two unions negotiate a joint contract with the company, which wasn’t done yet.
“And because it wasn’t done yet, the side that didn’t like it could prevent a joint contract from getting done. And because of that, the seniority integration never happened."

Scott Kirby.

http://aviationblog.dallasnews.com/2012/05/kirby-we-expect-an-amr-us-airw.html/

 

[Pi brat]

Yet you have not problem walking away from your agreement of binding arbitration.

But tell me, what was Dean Collelo's seniority?

Was Dave O'Dell senior to a furloughed pilots? What position could Dave O'Dell hold? What position could Monda hold?

Answer carefully I asked about seniority not longevity.

You do understand that ALPA merger policy is a SENIORITY integration correct? So arbitrators integrate SENIORITY. So no one stole 15 years from anyone. Unless you want to blame the old US air but they are gone. Good luck collecting from that entity.

Would you feel better if we had never elected USAPA but just kept rejecting a JCBA? The outcome would have been the same.

 

[cactusboy53]

Oh yes the guy who claims to be a good Christian on his tweets. You are a hypocrite.

The amendable date for the East pilots was December 31, 2009.
40 months. That would be a about 20 g's per month. You Clear and Snap, there are reasons why you could not get hired by a major airline, you are not honest.

Greed-soaked? No. Seeking the other party to keep your word. YUP. Get soaked? Yes, please get soaked. Ineptly setting up a defense? Sure, if that makes you sleep better at night. SYIC Claxy. You might win....or you might just lose.

 

[snapthis]

Oh yes the guy who claims to be a good Christian on his tweets. You are a hypocrite.

The amendable date for the East pilots was December 31, 2009.
40 months. That would be a about 20 g's per month. You Clear and Snap, there are reasons why you could not get hired by a major airline, you are not honest.

FAIL

 

[cactusboy53]

Another west liar. No one walked away from anything. As Mr Kirby told you when you asked the nic question, "NO!"

"
“In the US Airways – America West case, it went to binding arbitration but there was a requirement as part of that that the two unions negotiate a joint contract with the company, which wasn’t done yet.
“And because it wasn’t done yet, the side that didn’t like it could prevent a joint contract from getting done. And because of that, the seniority integration never happened."

Scott Kirby.

http://aviationblog....r-us-airw.html/

Liar? You mean like "the cactus three will go to jail"? You mean like "Kasher will pay"? You mean like "there was poop in them thar envelopes!" You mean like....oh nevermind. You've been drinking from the McKleary Kool-Aid fountain far too long (You mean like "Date of Hire is a SLAM DUNK!"?).

 

[EastUS1]

Greed-soaked? No.

Thanks for the predictable laughs. 🙂 So...C'mon: Just tell us all here how many more years worked than yourself, the east pilot, placed just below you by St. Nic, has done? Afterwards? Feel free to resume your "noble" nonsense. Well...If you're amazingly able to even believe it yourself, that is. 😉

 

[Pi brat]

Greed-soaked? No. Seeking the other party to keep your word. YUP. Get soaked? Yes, please get soaked. Ineptly setting up a defense? Sure, if that makes you sleep better at night. SYIC Claxy. You might win....or you might just lose.

Okay Dave, I'll ask you. The TA was the first agreement. The one that called for the three legs of the stool. We never got one. If we were at the same point, through other actions besides USAPA, would you feel the same way? Still waiting on an answer to my other question. Integrity calls.

 

[Claxon]

Liar? You mean like "the cactus three will go to jail"? You mean like "Kasher will pay"? You mean like "there was poop in them thar envelopes!" You mean like....oh nevermind. You've been drinking from the McKleary Kool-Aid fountain far too long (You mean like "Date of Hire is a SLAM DUNK!"?).

Provide jail quote. Kasher situation has not been closed yet. And you west pilots did defecate in envelopes and send them to USAPA my Christian brother.

 

[Claxon]

FAIL

Hey Tbone, those Ansette gates and the terminal, how did the west pilots like them when they flew during the pilot strike?

http://cdn-www.airli...6/0/0421067.jpg

 

[nic4us]

Substitute 'The human animal' for 'arbitration' and I agree 100 percent.

Edit. Thinking back on it, we set ourselves up for this. If we truly believed in arbitration, we wouldn't have had any need for this dual ratification bullshit. Had the west been on the percieved short end of the stick, it's 'options' would have been more limited, but that's really beside the point.

There is no ratification of the arbitrators decision. The TA is explicit in this matter.

dual ratification was a requirement because there were two MECs, and two separate groups. Both had to ratify a new contract.

But seniority is specifically out lined in the TA. Done deal, no vote. The option of never getting a contract is there in a backwards way, but along with that the east would have to stay on LO93. They just spent the last 5 years doing everything in their power to weasel out of LOA93, and now with the MOU, usapa has modified the TA.

One word........RIPE.

 

[Claxon]

There is no ratification of the arbitrators decision. The TA is explicit in this matter.

dual ratification was a requirement because there were two MECs, and two separate groups. Both had to ratify a new contract.

But seniority is specifically out lined in the TA. Done deal, no vote. The option of never getting a contract is there in a backwards way, but along with that the east would have to stay on LO93. They just spent the last 5 years doing everything in their power to weasel out of LOA93, and now with the MOU, usapa has modified the TA.

One word........RIPE.

Your lawyers agreed USAPA did not intentionally delay contract talks. Another west liar. Myth is too kind a word.

"Finally, there is the question of delay, if any, caused by USAPA's pursuit of an equitable seniority
integration solution."

http://www.unbiasedfacts.org/USAPAsUrbanMythsLetterNov2010.pdf

 

[nic4us]

Would you feel better if we had never elected USAPA but just kept rejecting a JCBA? The outcome would have been the same.

I would have felt much better.

The outcome would not have been the same.

 

[lynyrdskynyrd]

There is no ratification of the arbitrators decision. The TA is explicit in this matter.

dual ratification was a requirement because there were two MECs, and two separate groups. Both had to ratify a new contract.

But seniority is specifically out lined in the TA. Done deal, no vote. The option of never getting a contract is there in a backwards way, but along with that the east would have to stay on LO93. They just spent the last 5 years doing everything in their power to weasel out of LOA93, and now with the MOU, usapa has modified the TA.

One word........RIPE.

I understand all that, but it's a distinction without a difference, at least in the interim. The dual ratification of the contract is what allowed the ball of the last five years to get rolling. In retrospect, we should have got the contract first, then plugged in the agreed to or arbitrated list when it came to be.

The last five years is simply evidence of the more options the east had available to them. If it had been us, alpo would have told us to pound sand, and we would have never had the numbers for a new onion. Our only option would have been to vote no till we turned blue in the face or finally thought it through and dealt with reality.

If the east would have been limited to that same option, I'd wager we'd have a new contract by now, just like I think we would have a new contract by now if we'd percieved ourselves to be on the short end of the stick. I think the new onion option, did definately extend the timeline. The fact of the matter is, we had a hand in setting it up that way, facts are facts.

 

[nic4us]

Your lawyers agreed USAPA did not intentionally delay contract talks. Another west liar. Myth is too kind a word.

"Finally, there is the question of delay, if any, caused by USAPA's pursuit of an equitable seniority
integration solution."

Little Freudian slip there Claxhole.... Re-read my post...I never accused usapa of intentionally delaying contract talks.

Got any other little tidbits you would like to tell us about? like why uscaba's first offer at the table was only a demand of $ 1.8 billion more than the company's net earnings?

Maybe why a couple million was spent on that loser LOA93 grievance that Kirby, you know him, you quote him all the time, said the LOA93 grievance had 0% chance of going in usacaba's favor, but it ate up 2 years of the clock now didn't it?

 

[prechilill]

Unfortunately that proposal required a negotiated and ratified JCBA as agreed to by the west. You did not bring a job. You were fortunate enough to have had a job, but were not the owner of the position. We are all pawns in game of life!

Dude, we have a joint contract and the court believes the case is ripe. You voted in the Nic.