August 2013 Pilot Discussion

[snapthis]

Provide jail quote. Kasher situation has not been closed yet. And you west pilots did defecate in envelopes and send them to USAPA my Christian brother.

Says the person who speads BS at 186,000 miles per second when he hits post.

Streble said his daughter opened the envelope with a turd. It does not pass the smell test. What is she doing opening USAPA mail? How do you know it was a West pilot? Do you have a peep hole in the men's room of the crew room?

 

[Claxon]

Says the person who speads BS at 186,000 miles per second when he hits post.

Streble said his daughter opened the envelope with a turd. It does not pass the smell test. What is she doing opening USAPA mail? How do you know it was a West pilot? Do you have a peep hole in the men's room of the crew room?

I hope no one would make a smell test, in any event,

Having a daughter make anti USAPA videos is wrong, opening mail is not.

 

[Walmartgreeter]

Says the person who speads BS at 186,000 miles per second when he hits post.

Streble said his daughter opened the envelope with a turd. It does not pass the smell test. What is she doing opening USAPA mail? How do you know it was a West pilot? Do you have a peep hole in the men's room of the crew room?

Streble’s work for almost the entire first year was as a volunteer, and it is quite possible his daughter opened that letter. I simply don’t remember. Rob managed the Kannapolis POB for a long time, and was personally acquainted with the Postmaster, and some of the Inspectors. There were two letters with feces, and one definitely came from a particularly disgusting West pilot. I do NOT think that pilot represented of any of us, East or West. But it did happen.

What really was the bad thing was not the feces, but the ones with small rocks. The Postal Inspector was very upset, but thankfully did not have to act. The danger was the sorting machines could have thrown the rocks and hurt someone.

I won’t post the transcript again, but although the actions did not meet RICO, the court did not discount the seriousness of them. Spin it like you want, these were as…oles pure and simple that committed these acts, the worst being (in my opinion) the simpletons that called the safety hotline with prank calls. What if they had tied up the Safety line when Sully went down?

This might be something we can discuss at El Azteca, but I would prefer the conversation be about “all things me,” women, and flying. Your call.

Greeter

 

[Black Swan]

You are a liar sir, I thought you were a christian.

Stephen Gay (clear direct) is not a lurker, he is a posting stalker who assisted management.

Stephen Gay, clear direct, kept USA320 well informed about court proceedings. “Similar comments” (sarcasm) were posted by USA320 on usaviation at the same time Stephen was heading to the airport from court. Shortly after USA320 post, cleardirectstephen posted a flame bait.

There are many “similarities”, I provided examples of a few, you can find more.


Stephen Gay and USA320 are the quintessential reasons for the downfall of the pilot profession.
------------------------------------------------------------------
USA320
“bag tags (box sent from USAPA to the CLT CP) say "I Am on Board. Safety First" in yellow and on back "I've had Enough. I Am Ready To Strike" on the back in red. Company shows evidence that it was sent from USAPA HQ, using their postage meter.”

Stephen Gay ?@airbusguy2000 19 Aug 11
breaking news of sorts. yesterday USAPA sent a priority mail box to clt cp office with rather large job action bag tags in it.

USA320
“Company presented Tom Kubic's "roadmap to the slowdown". So far Darin Lee, Carrie Hester (Sr. VP) and Hogg have testified.

Stephen Gay ?@airbusguy2000 19 Aug 11
Company presented tom kubic's "roadmap to the slowdown". So far Darin Lee, Carrie Hester (Sr. VP) and Hogg have testified.


USA320
“USAPA attorney tried to mix it up with Darin Lee over regression analysis and if it really proved anything. Bad idea, Mr. Lawyer.

Stephen Gay ?@airbusguy2000 19 Aug 11
USAPA attorney tried to mix it up with Darin Lee over regression analysis and if it really proved anything. Bad idea, Mr. Lawyer.

USA320
“Hogg said relations between ALPA safety committee and company were cordial. ALPA did not try and politicize safety.

Stephen Gay ?@airbusguy2000 19 Aug 11
Hogg said relations between ALPA safety committee and company were cordial. ALPA did not try and politicize safety.

usa320post August 2011 http://www.airlineforums.com/topic/51445-federal-court-grants-us-airways-request-for-an-expedited-hearing-on-a-preliminary-injunction-against-usapa/page__st__192#entry823111

Stephen Gay, Cleardirect tweets; https://twitter.com/airbusguy2000

Nice job Chip Munn. Working against your own pilots. You are one sad individual.

 

[CallawayGolf]

Would you feel better if we had never elected USAPA but just kept rejecting a JCBA? The outcome would have been the same.

Except for the fact that there would be no legal question concerning the SLI or a DFR from or against the bargaining agent. Repeated rejections would have put the JCBA in the hands of the NMB who mostly likely would have remained engaged with the parties rather than parking negotiations waiting for a definitive legal ruling. No telling what would have happened with their oversight and the potent reality for both side to be released to self help or having the pilots ordered back to work by the POTUS. My guess is resolution in the form of a JCBA in one form or another would have been attainted by mid-2013.

 

[Walmartgreeter]

. My guess is resolution in the form of a JCBA in one form or another would have been attained by mid-2013.

Considering the time elapsed, your guess was very close. Looks like sometime in 2014 now for a JCBA, based on the MOU timeline.

Unless, of course, Silver decides all negotiations are finished and we have one now.

In that case, could someone please forward me a copy of my new contract, with an amendable date?

Greeter

 

[Pi brat]

Except for the fact that there would be no legal question concerning the SLI or a DFR from or against the bargaining agent. Repeated rejections would have put the JCBA in the hands of the NMB who mostly likely would have remained engaged with the parties rather than parking negotiations waiting for a definitive legal ruling. No telling what would have happened with their oversight and the potent reality for both side to be released to self help or having the pilots ordered back to work by the POTUS. My guess is resolution in the form of a JCBA in one form or another would have been attainted by mid-2013.

Perhaps, but we really don't know. The F/As didn't have a SLI dispute and just got a contract, one that I don't think would have passed absent the AA merger. The question wasn't whether that road would have made a difference, but rather if we took it and arrived at the same destination would the poster be as mad.

 

[Pi brat]

I would have felt much better.

The outcome would not have been the same.

How do you know? What are you basing that on other than your questionable judgement?

We had an election last year(or was it the year before? Time is flying) where the west slate promised to end the fight over the Nic. After years of fighting and lost wages, they were still overwhelmingly defeated. Seems that this group didn't think that what was available was worth the Nic, even then.

 

[Pi brat]

Dave?

 

[CallawayGolf]

Perhaps, but we really don't know. The F/As didn't have a SLI dispute and just got a contract, one that I don't think would have passed absent the AA merger. The question wasn't whether that road would have made a difference, but rather if we took it and arrived at the same destination would the poster be as mad.

What's to be mad at for people having a vote and exercising it without bringing into question the legal rights and obligations of the process? If ALPA was retained and bargained in good faith without discarding the results of binding arbitration then I don't see much to debate. The question would then be, if the NIC was the only option for a JCBA, how long would the majority of LCC pilots have turned down substantial pay raises to avoid the inevitable combination of seniority lists, especially if their own status was relatively unaffected by the NIC?

 

[Pi brat]

What's to be mad at for people having a vote and exercising it without bringing into question the legal rights and obligations of the process? If ALPA was retained and bargained in good faith without discarding the results of binding arbitration then I don't see much to debate. The question would then be, if the NIC was the only option for a JCBA, how long would the majority of LCC pilots have turned down substantial pay raises to avoid the inevitable combination of seniority lists, especially if their shown status was relatively unaffected by the NIC?

Because people say that the reason we are here now is that we ignored binding arbitration, but in reality it is because there was not a good enough contract offer to accept the Nic. DOH was never even negotiated between USAPA and the company, right?

I believe that absent a merger the company would not have made an offer good enough for east guys to accept the Nic, if it was unaltered.

 

[Walmartgreeter]

I believe that absent a merger the company would not have made an offer good enough for east guys to accept the Nic, if it was unaltered.

That is exactly what the Ninth believed. You are in good company.

Greeter

 

[CallawayGolf]

Because people say that the reason we are here now is that we ignored binding arbitration, but in reality it is because there was not a good enough contract offer to accept the Nic. DOH was never even negotiated between USAPA and the company, right?

Right, but that didn't change the hopeful expectation for east pilots that the NIC could somehow be avoided. Remove that false sense of hope from the process and put the Kirby or better out for a vote and there's certainly a chance that it could have passed. USAPA's margin of victory in the representational election wasn't all that strong, but it was fundamentally based on a hatred for ALPA and the promise that seniority could be negotiated after binding arbitration was finished. Remove both of those with ALPA and the NIC solidly placed in S22 and what do you have to vote against then?

 

[Pi brat]

Right, but that didn't change the hopeful expectation for east pilots that the NIC could somehow be avoided. Remove that false sense of hope from the process and put the Kirby or better out for a vote and there's certainly a chance that it could have passed. USAPA's margin of victory in the representational election wasn't all that strong, but it was fundamentally based on a hatred for ALPA and the promise that seniority could be negotiated after binding arbitration was finished. Remove both of those with ALPA and the NIC solidly placed in S22 and what do you have to vote against then?

It might have, we'll never know, but I think I have some pretty good supporting background.

I think everyone forgets how bad the Kirby was, and that was before the great recession. Not just the pay rates, but the whole thing like NO raise for E190s. Then we would have been dickering while the recession hit and the company was hurting again. Parker always said he wouldn't pay us the same as UA/DL, and I believe him. Did you catch his statement after the last F/A rejection? He said that turning down a contract offer doesn't get it sweetened, just more time to think about it. We would have still been a fractured group with no power. So, the east pilots would have had to make an economic decision. Take the Kirby, warts and all with the Nic, or stay on LOA 93. I think the resounding failure of the Ferguson ticket gives some evidence that passing a Nic inclusive contract, absent a merger, would have been tough.

Again, who knows, but the FACT is that we are here because of our original agreement, one you guys didn't have any issue with until after the fact, the T/A.

Thanks for answering my question though. Better than Dave did.

 

[luvthe9]

You are a liar sir, I thought you were a christian.

Stephen Gay (clear direct) is not a lurker, he is a posting stalker who assisted management.

Stephen Gay, clear direct, kept USA320 well informed about court proceedings. “Similar comments” (sarcasm) were posted by USA320 on usaviation at the same time Stephen was heading to the airport from court. Shortly after USA320 post, cleardirectstephen posted a flame bait.

There are many “similarities”, I provided examples of a few, you can find more.


Stephen Gay and USA320 are the quintessential reasons for the downfall of the pilot profession.
------------------------------------------------------------------
USA320
“bag tags (box sent from USAPA to the CLT CP) say "I Am on Board. Safety First" in yellow and on back "I've had Enough. I Am Ready To Strike" on the back in red. Company shows evidence that it was sent from USAPA HQ, using their postage meter.”

Stephen Gay ?@airbusguy2000 19 Aug 11
breaking news of sorts. yesterday USAPA sent a priority mail box to clt cp office with rather large job action bag tags in it.

USA320
“Company presented Tom Kubic's "roadmap to the slowdown". So far Darin Lee, Carrie Hester (Sr. VP) and Hogg have testified.

Stephen Gay ?@airbusguy2000 19 Aug 11
Company presented tom kubic's "roadmap to the slowdown". So far Darin Lee, Carrie Hester (Sr. VP) and Hogg have testified.


USA320
“USAPA attorney tried to mix it up with Darin Lee over regression analysis and if it really proved anything. Bad idea, Mr. Lawyer.

Stephen Gay ?@airbusguy2000 19 Aug 11
USAPA attorney tried to mix it up with Darin Lee over regression analysis and if it really proved anything. Bad idea, Mr. Lawyer.

USA320
“Hogg said relations between ALPA safety committee and company were cordial. ALPA did not try and politicize safety.

Stephen Gay ?@airbusguy2000 19 Aug 11
Hogg said relations between ALPA safety committee and company were cordial. ALPA did not try and politicize safety.

usa320post August 2011 http://www.airlineforums.com/topic/51445-federal-court-grants-us-airways-request-for-an-expedited-hearing-on-a-preliminary-injunction-against-usapa/page__st__192#entry823111

Stephen Gay, Cleardirect tweets; https://twitter.com/airbusguy2000

Munn and Gay working against fellow pilots. Munn is in bed with the West and the company. Traitor Dans' pal.