August 2013 Pilot Discussion

[prechilill]

Ok clear, let's talk about fraud. Wasn't it the AOL plan all along to have it's members vote for the MOU, knowing that it didn't include the Nic, then to file suit that it was illegal, get an injunction and then when the APA took over they would drop the appeal? Just tell the truth.

Yep! And you fell for it. Thanks! And now we are ripe!!! Lol. Here comes the Nic!!!

 

[dca319]

Just to be clear, I don't think DOH OR NIC is going to happen. We need to face the fact that there is no real way to fix this 8 year old mess. All we can do is say "OK its now 2014 and we are merging with AA, lets put the 3 together" Anybody still wanting NIC or DOH in regards to US/AWA can do nothing but hurt this group by continuing to sue. Anything other than accepting the fact that it is 2013 and not 2005 can only put a severe hurt on us, and by us I mean both east and west. I know that AOL's fall back position is arbitration will give them the NIC. By the time we would see arbitration for this it will be 2015, 10 years removed from 2005. I don't think any arbitrator panel is going to concern themselves with a "tentative list" from an uncompleted SLI that resided in an old and now void contract and T/A. Even the courts are having trouble with this and the T/A is still active (for an estimated 30 days more or so) I am 99% sure the east can live with this scenario and go on with life as the worlds largest airline. the question is can AOL give up the dream of being instant captains or widebody captains and also go on with life. What we have is kinda like the cold war was in my view, neither side can win, both sides can do pretty well by agreeing not to nuke each other, and both sides can only lose by pushing this mess into the realm of post POR.

Don't hold your breath on a three-way. Do you honestly think delay nullifies an arbitration? Good luck with that.

 

[Keroseneuser]

I highly suspect Parker's plan is to remain "neutral".

Further, the courts have figured it out. Perhaps you are under the wrong impression of what the courts have ruled.

No court to to date has vacated the Nicolau Award.

The West pilot class retains the legal rights to enforce the Nic. AOL can get class citification to sue for the Nic, but,
they cannot legally negotiate away the award.

I submit to you that Parker does not give one rats rear about east or west. East group is willing meet west somewhere in the middle, however if west continues the "NIC or nothing" jihad the east WILL fight it. now if that fight starts messing up parkers plans I submit to you that the MOU gives him the power to turn both of us into nothing more than 190 feeders for the AA mainline. Have you read the MOU "protections"? there are holes big enough to drive a 747 through. I think parker will wait to see what Silver comes up with.....if it is more kick the can as I suspect it will be, especially since the next hearing is assumed to be post POR and MOU activation date....and AOL still is on the Jihad of NIC or nothing, I think Parker will then call Isom with the " Nuke football" so to speak and blamo, east and west become a group of really old feeder pilots. I would like to think that the protections in the MOU would prevent that, but even my dumb a$$ can see the holes in that document so Parker and company who are masters at contract manipulation can probably have a field day with us.

 

[MUTATIS MUTANDIS]

Don't hold your breath on a three-way. Do you honestly think delay nullifies an arbitration? Good luck with that.

Delay has nothing to do with it, NO JCBA it fits in. No UNION to enforce it(ALPA in the NAUGHLER said it wasn't their award) , and agreed with the 9th, And NO DUAL RATIFICATION! Good luck with that!

 

[Reed Richards]

I highly suspect Parker's plan is to remain "neutral".

Further, the courts have figured it out. Perhaps you are under the wrong impression of what the courts have ruled.

No court to to date has vacated the Nicolau Award.

The West pilot class retains the legal rights to enforce the Nic. AOL can get class citification to sue for the Nic, but,
they cannot legally negotiate away the award.

Nic4us, Parker has NOT remained neutral. After fibbing to USAPA about his stance before MOU vote, he stabbed us in the back with a ripe argument before Judge Silver. And now he even argues for a special class within our own union. The courts, at least Judge Silver have NOT figured this out. She will soon get religion when she looks at the particulars needed to ordain a new bargaining agent on the property. No court has vacated the NIC award because it simply has never been used. How can a court vacate an old bargaining position? As to the West Class, even that status is before Judge Silver. She will also have to decide if you even have class status in regards to the question at hand, the use of the NIC in the MOU. RR

 

[MUTATIS MUTANDIS]

I submit to you that Parker does not give one rats rear about east or west. East group is willing meet west somewhere in the middle, however if west continues the "NIC or nothing" jihad the east WILL fight it. now if that fight starts messing up parkers plans I submit to you that the MOU gives him the power to turn both of us into nothing more than 190 feeders for the AA mainline. Have you read the MOU "protections"? there are holes big enough to drive a 747 through. I think parker will wait to see what Silver comes up with.....if it is more kick the can as I suspect it will be, especially since the next hearing is assumed to be post POR and MOU activation date....and AOL still is on the Jihad of NIC or nothing, I think Parker will then call Isom with the " Nuke football" so to speak and blamo, east and west become a group of really old feeder pilots. I would like to think that the protections in the MOU would prevent that, but even my dumb a$$ can see the holes in that document so Parker and company who are masters at contract manipulation can probably have a field day with us.

I disagree PARKER, EBERWIENE, MR Webber, think of delay tactics to keep the jihad alive and well, the companies latest filing for WEST representation violates any neutral statements, the fact his VP is married to a LEONATO member tells you where they stand, DUI DOUG aint neutral and HUMMEL will probably end up as a VP !

 

[luvthe9]

Bingo , we have a winner, DUI will drag this out through the courts(his neutral filings aint so neutral) at least another 6 years, since the MOU the EAST, yes EAST gave up SCOPE and COC language my opinion DUI will set up WEST bases in CLT, PHL, LAX, keeping their block hours and leaving this group the lowest cost by "FAR" MAJOR carrier for the next 6 years! One only has to look at their treatment of EAGLE to see where this train will go!

Until then, Dave O Dell is smoking up that DCA list.

 

[traderjake]

I submit to you that Parker does not give one rats rear about east or west. East group is willing meet west somewhere in the middle, however if west continues the "NIC or nothing" jihad the east WILL fight it. now if that fight starts messing up parkers plans I submit to you that the MOU gives him the power to turn both of us into nothing more than 190 feeders for the AA mainline. Have you read the MOU "protections"? there are holes big enough to drive a 747 through. I think parker will wait to see what Silver comes up with.....if it is more kick the can as I suspect it will be, especially since the next hearing is assumed to be post POR and MOU activation date....and AOL still is on the Jihad of NIC or nothing, I think Parker will then call Isom with the " Nuke football" so to speak and blamo, east and west become a group of really old feeder pilots. I would like to think that the protections in the MOU would prevent that, but even my dumb a$$ can see the holes in that document so Parker and company who are masters at contract manipulation can probably have a field day with us.

You can stop begging the West to come off the NIC.

 

[traderjake]

Until then, Dave O Dell is smoking up that DCA list.

You too.

 

[luvthe9]

1. Wow...Pi is going all psycho over ...."answere the question".... He did answere the question, but since nobody seems to be able to read plain English I will make it even more plain.

NO......if that was too simple...how about...NO AOL did not advise the West to vote in favor of the MOU then claim the MOU was illegal.

2. How did Cleary trademark a registered trademark of the US pickelballers Association? Beets the he'll out of me but I do remember some scab over there making waves about using the initials u s a p a for other than official business, and that is why I first just quit using capital letters, then said screw it and just call them scabs.

3. The Seniority section of the TA is complete, and never had or required dual ratification. The choice was you easties could stay on LOA93 into perpetuity, or negotiate a nic inclusive contract.

4. The east is going to have a cow when they see the upcoming West vacancy bid! I hear it will be out next week.

5. The only east poster making any sense is Kerosen....except he is off slightly on what the MOU says. 10h of the MOU says that the MOU will not change the listS at LCC...but that is while we are LCC, once we are the New American...we change to the process in paragraph 10, which is MB...(and no not MB lite, MBesque,MBsimilar, but MB). So, uscaba( again don't want to violate any trademark right, but you all know who I am talking about) can try to negotiate a combined list with the APA, but that will go nowhere, because exactly who in the last 6 years has negotiated anything with uscaba (answere, not a soul because all the other players actually do fear the "pain of an unquestionably ripe DFR).

so, it is off to arbitration where the only accepted system seniority list ever reached at LCC (I.e. The Nic) will be used to integrate the pilots for the new company!


Have a nice day!

Dave ODell has moved way past you. I say he hits left seat way before you. Prechillili can sniff his 330 left seat.

 

[Reed Richards]

;I would like to think that the protections in the MOU would prevent that, but even my dumb a$$ can see the holes in that document so Parker and company who are masters at contract manipulation can probably have a field day with us.

Keroseneuser, the combined airline will soon contract 10-15% due to attrition, and will all probably jog in place for a few years. That is a given in just about every merger, excepting the attrition we are lucky to have (AMR and US Airways.) I don't see as many holes as you do, and it ain't a perfect MOU. But for me it beats LOA 93 by a longshot. And that document has proven to be totally unenforceable at every turn. But thanks for the honesty on your vote. I predict the reverse of LOA 93, I predict nobody will say they voted against the MOU in a few years. RR

 

[Reed Richards]

Dave ODell has moved way past you. I say he hits left seat way before you. Prechillili can sniff his 330 left seat.

Dave ODell can already hold the left seat on the 190, even before the latest bid. RR

 

[dca319]

Dave ODell can already hold the left seat on the 190, even before the latest bid. RR

Why would Odell want left seat in an RJ?

 

[luvthe9]

Why would Odell want left seat in an RJ?

He has figured it out that the Nic is his worst enemy. He is loving the East movement.

 

[Reed Richards]

Why would Odell want left seat in an RJ?

2nd year pay in the left seat of the 190 next Jan pays 8300/month or about 100K a year using 73 hours. A 2 Year pilot! Then he can just do like I do and tell all his neighbors he flys a 777 Paris to NY once a month. And we already know Dave is smart, taking a job East rather than waiting for West expansion. It still stuns me, the bottom guy on your list now a potential C/O on our list. RR