August 2013 Pilot Discussion

[Claxon]

When we sit down for lunch sometime in the future, it's not a subject I care to discuss. I've never spoke with any of our pilots who admitted to such acts, therefore I have to take the info you all post and see if it adds up. I wish they would have found the individual who did it, if true, I can't defend such actions.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TxaQFQC0MAY

 

[Phoenix]

... If ...

That is the most operative word the West ever uses.

 

[Pi brat]

No it didn't specifically and only because of the merger. That merger had effects on all people who worked for the two former airlines. The effect on the pilots was that the pilots needed to be integrated according to the CBA/TA and according to ALPA policy. You had no control over the Management decisions of the former US Airways, no control over the results of binding arbitration, no control over the RLA that requires CBAs to fairly represent all constituents rather than just the majority. And if US had liquidated you would have no control over that either and you might have an entirely different definition of having a decimated career.

Might have......

But we dealt with the situation we had. A T/A that allowed it to happen.

 

[nycbusdriver]

Nice job Chip Munn. Working against your own pilots. You are one sad individual.

He has always fancied himself as an "insider," and pseudo-management. After 9/11 he started campaigning to get the pilots to just voluntarily give up 10% pay without the company even asking for it.

Talk about brown-noser!

 

[Ames]

That was out of our hands and never happened, did it?

No, thanks to Doug Parker and AWA.

PS: All of us on the west wish it had happened and you had liquidated. The result would have been almost as good as a cure for cancer.

 

[Ames]

Do you have proof of this.

Yes. You can find the proof if you want to but I am sure you really don't want to.

 

[Ames]

Might have......

But we dealt with the situation we had. A T/A that allowed it to happen.

The T/A didn't allow anything to happen. We followed the T/A right up until the eastholes reneged on the whole process. You cannot deny that.

 

[Claxon]

No, thanks to Doug Parker and AWA.

PS: All of us on the west wish it had happened and you had liquidated. The result would have been almost as good as a cure for cancer.

The rest of the industry wishes your airline never started. It was a drag on pilot salaries for most of its' existence. You were the cancer. Every other airline had a pension. Your group never had one, and others were dragged down to your level.
Ansett pilots rue the day you showed on their continent.

 

[cleardirect]

It might have, we'll never know, but I think I have some pretty good supporting background.

I think everyone forgets how bad the Kirby was, and that was before the great recession. Not just the pay rates, but the whole thing like NO raise for E190s. Then we would have been dickering while the recession hit and the company was hurting again. Parker always said he wouldn't pay us the same as UA/DL, and I believe him. Did you catch his statement after the last F/A rejection? He said that turning down a contract offer doesn't get it sweetened, just more time to think about it. We would have still been a fractured group with no power. So, the east pilots would have had to make an economic decision. Take the Kirby, warts and all with the Nic, or stay on LOA 93. I think the resounding failure of the Ferguson ticket gives some evidence that passing a Nic inclusive contract, absent a merger, would have been tough.

Again, who knows, but the FACT is that we are here because of our original agreement, one you guys didn't have any issue with until after the fact, the T/A.

Thanks for answering my question though. Better than Dave did.

Yet you conveniently forget that we could have gotten a contract just prior to the Nicolau in 2007. Under oath testimony stated another 10%. That means we would be on our second contract by now. Except you easties pick up your ball and cried going home refusing to even show up for JCBA.

No matter haw you try and spin it yo easties re to blame for this mess.

 

[cleardirect]

[font="Verdana][size="2"]ALPA's Communications Department provides information and support for news media inquiries. An ALPA communications representative can be reached in the Herndon, Va. office at (703) 481-4440.[/size][/font]

[font="Verdana][size="5"]News Release[/size][/font]​

[font="Verdana][size="2"]February 22, 2002[/size][/font]
[font="Verdana][size="2"]Pilots to Host Union Conference on Job Outsourcing[/size][/font]
[font="Verdana][size="2"]PHOENIX — The four unions representing approximately 6,000 America West Airlines employees will meet Feb. 25 in Phoenix to discuss the effects increased outsourcing of flying to smaller affiliate airlines will have on their respective members’ careers.[/size][/font]
[font="Verdana][size="2"]The conference, hosted by the America West unit of the Air Line Pilots Association, International (ALPA), will include representatives from the International Brotherhood of Teamsters, Transport Workers Union and Association of Flight Attendants.[/size][/font]
[font="Verdana][size="2"]"We cannot sit idly by and watch while the growth of America West, growth made possible by the efforts and sacrifices of the employees, is outsourced to other carriers," said Captain Herb Holland, chairman of the America West ALPA unit. "We all want to see America West grow, but not at the expense of our own careers."[/size][/font]
[font="Verdana][size="2"]According to America West’s Seven Year Plan, which was submitted to the Air Transport Stabilization Board in December to support the airline’s federal loan guarantee application, outsourced flying performed on behalf of America West by other carriers will increase 100 percent from 2001 to 2008. During that same period, America West itself will increase flying by only 20 percent.[/size][/font]
[font="Verdana][size="2"]"With hundreds of our workers still on furlough, it’s disturbing to see America West management’s continued disregard for the job security concerns of the very people who have driven this airline’s success," Captain Holland said.[/size][/font]
[font="Verdana][size="2"]Including the 1,800 America West pilots, ALPA represents 64,000 pilots at 45 airlines in the United States and Canada.[/size][/font]

Mike don't you have anything better to do than go back through old files on your computer?

Mike Cleary definition of OCD. No wonder you are still out not flying.

 

[cleardirect]

Who said DOH was the offer?

The transcripts. The east MEC. The usapa C&BL. You when you met with Ferguson. Shamanski in court when he lied o the judge during the DJ case.

 

[cleardirect]

That was out of our hands and never happened, did it?

Yet in usapa statement of "facts" Shamanski lists an event that never happened as fact.

Can't have it both ways.

 

[cleardirect]

Do you have proof of this.

Transcripts from the arbitration. Transcripts for the LOA 93 arbitration. Sec filings, Parker's at crew news.

What proof do you have that you us airways was not going to liquidate Mike? Your opinion?

 

[Walmartgreeter]

The supposed "there for the taking" contract(s) everyone references in 2007 and even 2008 share one thing in common...Kirby wanted no part of the East Section I.

Imagine where we would be now in this AMR scenario without East COC and Scope to bargain with. Can you say "Air Tran?"

The union did the right thing, and said "no." It’s a word Kirby uses and understands.

Greeter

 

[Claxon]

Yet you conveniently forget that we could have gotten a contract just prior to the Nicolau in 2007. Under oath testimony stated another 10%. That means we would be on our second contract by now. Except you easties pick up your ball and cried going home refusing to even show up for JCBA.

No matter haw you try and spin it yo easties re to blame for this mess.

You and Munn did an excellent job for your management. And both of you wondered why you could not get a contract. Both common enemies of the line pilot worldwide. Munn took your feed and altered it by a minute amount to give the impression he was an insider. You provided that feed.