August 2013 Pilot Discussion

[Reed Richards]

So are you happy to see USAPA or not?

Not happy to see it go, but accepting the inevitable. A merger scenario was assumed from the beginning, even a return possibly to ALPA. Who, even in 2007 did not see a large merger on horizon? RR

 

[dca319]

Move, you are the entertainment of the day! Work on your reading skills and you will be amazed at what you might someday begin to understand.

I can't top your representational election post for humor. Not ever.

 

[Piedmont1984]

But you see the west doesn't want to live up to that part of the agreement, even one of their masterminds help write it, their attorneys got to look at it and 97% of them voted for it, No, they think Judge Silver will throw that part out, mandate the use of the Nicolau award that day, and in the AA SLI, USAPA will appeal, but the APA will take over and drop the appeal. That's the plan.

Silver is sending out signals and those signals alarm me. Our merger committee hasn't said much yet, but our attorneys are on record that USAPA will propose DOH with C/Rs. Call it truce, compromise, cease fire, whatever - but it can't happen unless both sides move off their positions and I think USAPA needs to make the first move.

Besides, in the context of our merger with AA, something other than DOH won't hurt us. Especially since we probably won't get DOH. Their president is on record saying DOH won't work for them and every AA pilot that I have spoken to wants to see some sort of slotting.

 

[Piedmont1984]

"FUKU (Formerly Union Known as USAPA)" And if you want to use the F word in relation to your own union, have at it. Verbal vomit indeed. RR

Yeah, I'm a Fokker and proud of it.

 

[Pi brat]

By the way, due to changes at the NMB in process there is a chance, absent a union merger, that we could still have a representational election on the property. RR

RR, are you talking about this?

The genesis of the language included in the FAA Act was the controversial NMB rule (pdf) that changed the agency’s 75-year-old representation election policy. Under this rule, the outcome of representation elections is based on the majority of those who actually vote, rather than a majority of the bargaining unit, effectively making it easier for employees in the rail and air industries to unionize. A House-passed version of the FAA legislation would have rescinded the NMB’s rule altogether. The final FAA Act, however, did not include rescission language, but rather amended the RLA by: (a) specifying that the NMB must provide an opportunity for public hearing regarding any significant rules; (requiring that in any runoff election for which there are three or more options (including the option of “no union&rdquo😉 on the ballot and none receives a majority of the valid votes cast, a second election would be held between the two options receiving the most votes; © raising the showing of interest threshold for elections to not less than 50% (up from 35%) of the employees in the craft or class; and (d) imposing certain review and auditing requirements on the NMB’s programs and expenditures.

 

[Pi brat]

Silver is sending out signals and those signals alarm me. Our merger committee hasn't said much yet, but our attorneys are on record that USAPA will propose DOH with C/Rs. Call it truce, compromise, cease fire, whatever - but it can't happen unless both sides move off their positions and I think USAPA needs to make the first move.

Besides, in the context of our merger with AA, something other than DOH won't hurt us. Especially since we probably won't get DOH. Their president is on record saying DOH won't work for them and every AA pilot that I have spoken to wants to see some sort of slotting.

Me too, I think there is a good chance she will rule for the west. I wasn't there, but she seemed really p.o.ed that the merger committee put out and update saying they would advocate DOH with C&Rs. As a friend of mine said "She is her own woman."

When I read the MOU to me it reads that our merger committee will take the east list and the west list to the table, represent both sides, but THEN I assume they will advocate DOH with C&Rs as per the C&BLs. Many I fly with seem to think they will combine east and west list by DOH first, then go to the table with AA. I don't see how they can do that under the MOU, but nobody seems to be willing to talk in the clear about it. I'm guess that may be a result of the last hearing.

 

[nevergiveup]

Me too, I think there is a good chance she will rule for the west. I wasn't there, but she seemed really p.o.ed that the merger committee put out and update saying they would advocate DOH with C&Rs. As a friend of mine said "She is her own woman."

When I read the MOU to me it reads that our merger committee will take the east list and the west list to the table, represent both sides, but THEN I assume they will advocate DOH with C&Rs as per the C&BLs. Many I fly with seem to think they will combine east and west list by DOH first, then go to the table with AA. I don't see how they can do that under the MOU, but nobody seems to be willing to talk in the clear about it. I'm guess that may be a result of the last hearing.

Slotting with fences.....hmmm.....perhaps.....everyone just wants to keep what they brought to the table.

 

[cactusboy53]

Silver is sending out signals and those signals alarm me. Our merger committee hasn't said much yet, but our attorneys are on record that USAPA will propose DOH with C/Rs. Call it truce, compromise, cease fire, whatever - but it can't happen unless both sides move off their positions and I think USAPA needs to make the first move.

Besides, in the context of our merger with AA, something other than DOH won't hurt us. Especially since we probably won't get DOH. Their president is on record saying DOH won't work for them and every AA pilot that I have spoken to wants to see some sort of slotting.

How exactly do you get a pilot, two pilots, a dozen pilots or all 1600 (or so) pilots to "move off" a FINAL & BINDING seniority arbitration that all three parties (US Air pilots, AWA pilots & LCC) agreed to?

Sorry, I will not compromise from what is already the agreed upon compromise solution.

Judge Silver will finish this in one day of court. The speed of the rest of the merger will make your head spin.

CB

 

[nevergiveup]

How exactly do you get a pilot, two pilots, a dozen pilots or all 1600 (or so) pilots to "move off" a FINAL & BINDING seniority arbitration that all three parties (US Air pilots, AWA pilots & LCC) agreed to?

Sorry, I will not compromise from what is already the agreed upon compromise solution.

Judge Silver will finish this in one day of court. The speed of the rest of the merger will make your head spin.

CB

If USAPA negotiates and ratifies a contract with US Airways between now and the merger, your wish will surely come true.

 

[Piedmont1984]

How exactly do you get a pilot, two pilots, a dozen pilots or all 1600 (or so) pilots to "move off" a FINAL & BINDING seniority arbitration that all three parties (US Air pilots, AWA pilots & LCC) agreed to?

Sorry, I will not compromise from what is already the agreed upon compromise solution.

Judge Silver will finish this in one day of court. The speed of the rest of the merger will make your head spin.

CB.

.

OTOH, perhaps the timeline required to appeal to a higher court will not infringe upon USAPA's sunset. Both Silver and the 9th made have made some interesting remarks about alternatives to the Nic. Under the old TA it was my right to vote for or against a JCBA with the Nic explicitly written out in Section 22. The majority had the right to vote no in perpetuity. I don't see how the MOU changed that. The union has enough money to carry this fight on for some time, provided they can 'escrow' the funds for just that purpose after we become APA and the AA boys couldn't care less how we order ourselves.

If your prediction about the 24th don't pan out, what is your plan B?

 

[nic4us]

If USAPA negotiates and ratifies a contract with US Airways between now and the merger, ........

They already have.

 

[Piedmont1984]

They already have.

Not the seniority part of the contract.

 

[nic4us]

.

OTOH, perhaps the timeline required to appeal to a higher court will not infringe upon USAPA's sunset. Both Silver and the 9th made have made some interesting remarks about alternatives to the Nic. Under the old TA it was my right to vote for or against a JCBA with the Nic explicitly written out in Section 22. The majority had the right to vote no in perpetuity. I don't see how the MOU changed that. The union has enough money to carry this fight on for some time, provided they can 'escrow' the funds for just that purpose after we become APA and the AA boys couldn't care less how we order ourselves.

If your prediction about the 24th don't pan out, what is your plan B?

Sorry, but union funds are subject to a germain/non-germain test.

How does a post certified FUKU pass that test without a contract to enforce, or a represented body to enforce for?

Nope, the money is not staying at FUKU, and any attempt will likely see serious charges made.

 

[nic4us]

Not the seniority part of the contract.

Paragraph 10 of the MOU.

 

[Piedmont1984]

Paragraph 10 of the MOU.

You mean the paragraph referring to two separate lists?