August 2013 Pilot Discussion

[Reed Richards]

Who will represent the East when APA replaces FUKU?

FUKU will no longer be our CBA.

If someone can be designated to represent the East then why not the West?

You continue to stupidly confuse USAPA being replaced as our bargaining agent by APA with the M/B process. The MOU is clear in that regard. Read the darn thing for once and come back with a reasoned reply. I asked early for some commentary on the issues. You have failed. RR

 

[cleardirect]

From the deposition of Al Hemingway during Addington I:

"On September 30, 2008, USAPA passed an initial seniority
integration proposal to US Airways. To date, the parties have scheduled six additional days of
negotiations to take place before December 4, 2008. Despite these efforts with both ALPA and
USAPA, to date, the parties have not yet reached agreement on a single labor contract."

So how did USAPA pass it, if the company didn't accept it? Did they fumble?

usapa passed a proposal for line bidding and $200 per hour. Did the company accept that too?

You need to understand the difference between accepting and receiving. You say you had a letter that stated Parker had ACCEPTED the usapa seniority proposal. Where is it?

 

[Claxon]

"No!"

Scott Kirby, Judge Silver

http://www.pwc.com/us/en/alumni/keyword/vol6/re-routed.jhtml

 

[cleardirect]

Again idiot, that section of the contract was still open, never negotiated because of unripe lawsuits.

"Five months after certification, USAPA presented a seniority
proposal to the airline. The proposal incorporated date-ofhire
principles. Although the proposal contained some protections
for West Pilots, it was not nearly as favorable to West
Pilots as the Nicolau Award. The airline had not yet
responded to the proposal when the district court entered its
permanent injunction."

"Not until the airline responds to the proposal, the
parties complete negotiations, and the membership ratifies the
CBA will the West Pilots actually be affected by USAPA’s
seniority proposal — whatever USAPA’s final proposal ultimately
is."

I think you are putting too much into "accept." Sure they accepted the Nicolau award, just as you accept a letter. But it was a proposal, and we never closed it out in a contract. Now, you guys say we have a CBA, and Judge Silver agrees with you, but you fail to recognize that it doesn't matter if the Nicolau was "accepted" because the new "CBA" excludes it. If it didn't why would we have a suit going on? So, In completing our negotiations, all parties agreed to not make the "accepted" Nicolau award part of the new contract.

So educate us all. When does a proposal go from being just a proposal to being accepted? When the company signs a letter saying they accept it? Kind of stops being a proposal at that point does it not? So it is a big point of acceptance.

The company has accepted the Nicolau, the company has not accepted usapa's PROPOSAL.

 

[Pi brat]

Who's tense? You're the one who's been on a tear lately. Again, since you pushed the DoH list across the table, why are we in a quagmire? And no, I won't talk about AA accidents because they're irrelevant to the discussion. You, obviously think differently. Why do you want to bring AA's history into this. Are you having trouble justifying your own?

You and clear seem really tense. I see he's back, let's see if he's done his home work. I'm just enjoying messing while I finish up my short call.

We are in a quagmire because of George Nicolau's big old turd.

Why would I have trouble with not putting a scratch on an airplane or passenger?

 

[Pi brat]

So educate us all. When does a proposal go from being just a proposal to being accepted? When the company signs a letter saying they accept it? Kind of stops being a proposal at that point does it not? So it is a big point of acceptance.

The company has accepted the Nicolau, the company has not accepted usapa's PROPOSAL.

Did you see my quotes from the 9th? They called the entire Nic a PROPOSAL.

Again, if it was accepted and is all done, why are we here? Why did the company negotiate the language it did in the MOU. BTW, does it concern you that you filed a hybrid DFR and half the defendants have been released? I'm mean, if they ACCEPTED the Nic.........

 

[Pi brat]

usapa passed a proposal for line bidding and $200 per hour. Did the company accept that too?

You need to understand the difference between accepting and receiving. You say you had a letter that stated Parker had ACCEPTED the usapa seniority proposal. Where is it?

I showed you Al's deposition, did you miss it?

Now, those C&BLs?

 

[Pi brat]

When the company signs a letter saying they accept it? Kind of stops being a proposal at that point does it not?

No, when the company and the union ACCEPT it and put it in a contract. That never happened.

 

[Claxon]

I'm not interested in that part of the MOU so I won't be reading it.

You have been spending too much time talking to the pilots based in the desert sand.

http://t3.gstatic.co...fbDDUCDOtycb2Gb

 

[Pi brat]

Who will represent the East when APA replaces FUKU?

FUKU will no longer be our CBA.

If someone can be designated to represent the East then why not the West?

But the APA will be legally certified as the CBA. AOL is just a LLC and how many times have they said they can't represent west pilots?

 

[Pi brat]

I believe Stravers was hired in the late 80's, and recall even the PHX reps voted against his being on the Merger Committee (but not sure.) So again, if the Judge picks Stravers to negotiate for the West at the table, who will they sue if they are not happy with his work! If any of you care, go back and read the pleading to Judge Silver written by Roland Wilder and his son, as to the unprecedented act of simply creating a new bargaining agent out of thin air. It is an interesting read, going back even to CAB days (and counters Siegel's recollection to the contrary on past CAB history.) RR

Perhaps there needs to be a vote of just west pilot on who they want to represent them. I mean, not even all the west pilots have contributed to AOL, and about 20 or so defied them and voted against the MOU. But would that include the ones that came east? I'm soooo confused. 🙂

 

[Claxon]

west fuzzy math.

http://leonidas.cactuspilots.us/Leonidas_Brochure_Issue_2.pdf

 

[Metroyet]

No, they don't. The have the listS currently in effect, you know the ones we operate with every day? The ones the MOU that we all voted for said wouldn't be changed except under section 10 of the MOU? Doug Parker is the first one I heard float the idea of a 3 way, over a year ago in a crew news.

You're putting an inordinate amount of faith in a single letter. If the entire TA can be obfuscated for years..despite its plain language, how much faith do you really have in a SINGLE letter?

 

[traderjake]

dupe

 

[Metroyet]

Hey Mike, FUKU.

We're not paying for your vacation, you're blackmail scheme ain't gonna work.