You'd think they would jump right up and answer since they are so full of it. Integrity that is.
August 2013 Pilot Discussion
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You'd think they would jump right up and answer since they are so full of it. Integrity that is.
Indeed. 😉 Perhaps there's some concern over the possibility of accidentally spilling all of their "cleverness" out into a single thimble/response though....?
cleardirect
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Defend itself. When the NMB de-certifies usapa there is no more "itself" the entity usapa disappears and does not need defending anymore. Any liability transfers to APA.
Yes I read the C&BL. But some unions C&BL don't trump federal law. When the NMB de-certify usapa the C&BL hold no legal authority. So they could say the officers get $100 million in gold and retire to an island in the sun but it mean nothing.
usapa will not have anything to defend. usapa will no longer represent anyone so therefore usapa does not have any "majority" to represent. If usapa tries to represent anyone it only further proves that usapa is only interested in representing east pilots.
I have asked the question what legal authority does usapa have after de-certification but you have failed to answer my question.
Piedmont1984
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The question has been asked numerous times. Who would sit at the table and represent the west?
Two consecutive USAPA presidents attempted to 'negotiate' with the west, but were rebuffed. Who was it that both Cleary and Hummel intended to negotiate with and what gave them the authority to do so? After a better part of a decade watching this fiasco, is the NMB going to step in and say 'stop, you can't do that, because it might end this dispute'. If the union were to appoint the current PHX rep to represent the west, with the understanding that he will toe the AOL position and demand the Nic, what party in the west will sue? Has any west party filed a lawsuit because they do not want the Nic? The union has considerable latitude to pursue whatever course of action is reasonable. They would already have the judge and the company in agreement.
I have high confidence that in such a scenario (3 way) the Nic model will not prevail. In accordance with the MOU, the Nic would simply be another proposal. The west contingent will have had it's say.
P.S. My trademark is being overused and abused. It was meant to be used by defiant easties. I'm taking it back.
Two consecutive USAPA presidents attempted to 'negotiate' with the west, but were rebuffed. Who was it that both Cleary and Hummel intended to negotiate with and what gave them the authority to do so? After a better part of a decade watching this fiasco, is the NMB going to step in and say 'stop, you can't do that, because it might end this dispute'. If the union were to appoint the current PHX rep to represent the west, with the understanding that he will toe the AOL position and demand the Nic, what party in the west will sue? Has any west party filed a lawsuit because they do not want the Nic? The union has considerable latitude to pursue whatever course of action is reasonable. They would already have the judge and the company in agreement.
I have high confidence that in such a scenario (3 way) the Nic model will not prevail. In accordance with the MOU, the Nic would simply be another proposal. The west contingent will have had it's say.
P.S. My trademark is being overused and abused. It was meant to be used by defiant easties. I'm taking it back.
nycbusdriver
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I think Judge Silver will include Wolf's official name change in her Sept. 24 decree.
nevergiveup
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I can see the arbitrators coming up with a formula and applying it to each pilot regardless of what list he or she is on. Temporary fences will surely be established. Furloughed AA pilots will not be thrown under the bus.
Reed Richards
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What federal law are you referring to that says a bargaining agent has to return dues when decertified? I am asking. The CBL was not written in a vacuum. If USAPA (bargaining agent or not) feels it has obligations going forward, then the Officers may decide to use the moneys for other needs. Since you plan to sue USAPA forever, I think defending USAPA would be a proper use, but not my call. My last bargaining agent kept my dues when they were decertified. In fact, they used them to pay for activities that benefited other pilots. And you still have not told me who will sit for the West Class at the M/B table, and please, no more of this new "in the room" malarkey. And again, bargaining agent or not, USAPA can continue to exist going forward, just like Leo has, only with quite a bit more fundage (your contributions are much appreciated!) RR
Reed Richards
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Did ALPA give the dues collected from AirTran pilots to SWAPA when ALPA was decertified? I am asking. I assume "federal law" governs that transaction also. RR
Where do you get this? Did ALPA's TWA DFR liability transfer to the APA? No-ALPA was found to have failed IT'S DFR to the TWA pilots, the APA didn't have any duty to them, yet. Did ALPA's MDA liability fall to USAPA after they were certified as our CBA? Again, NO.
Yes, it is almost a certainty that the APA will become our bargaining agent, with all the rights and responsibilities. But, you sued USAPA and they have set themselves up to be able to continue operating in that situation. I guess you can sue again, it is what you do best.
Does that answer your question?
nycbusdriver
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...much to George Nicolau's dismay and disappointment. They are, after all, in his estimation worthless dregs.
nycbusdriver
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Putting it another way:
USAPA existed for many months before it became the NMB Certified Bargaining Agent for US Airways pilots. It is widely acknowledged by every US Airways pilot, both east and west, that USAPA will be superseded as the NMB CBA in the next several months. That does not make USAPA disappear as an organization, but only its function as bargaining agent will go away when the NMB rules it so. It will likely take several months before USAPA disappears after APA takes over the contract administration and representation. It will exist until at least the SLI is complete.
I'm waiting for clear's legal reference on his pronouncements. If he is correct and all of USAPA's liabilities transfer to the APA then I have some great ideas for getting back all the money spent in court!
Joinder and Intervention
"The West Pilots have moved to join the Allied Pilots Association (“APA&rdquo😉 as a party
to this litigation. APA is the union presently representing the American Airlines pilots. The West Pilots are concerned that during the merger process, the APA will replace USAPA and the APA “will represent . . . all pilots in the post-merger New American airline.” (Doc. 58).
The APA does not oppose the request for joinder, apparently because it wishes to protect its rights in the event it does become USAPA’s successor-in-interest.
The problem with the request to join APA is that, as of now, the West Pilots do not
appear to have any viable claim against APA. Given that the West Pilots will only becomesubject to APA governance after the merger is complete, it is unclear how the West Pilots envision the current joinder would operate. But assuming joinder is proper, i.e. the West Pilots have current claims against APA, an amended complaint must be filed. Therefore, if the West Pilots want to have APA as a current party, they should immediately amend their complaint to name APA."
Judge Silver
http://leonidas.cact...c 122 Order.pdf
Phoenix
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