August 2013 Pilot Discussion

[fatherabraham]

All,

RR has made some very good points concerning USAPA backing of AA/LCC merge.

I have complete disdain for DP past actions towards labor and will not ever lift a finger in any way shape or mannor in support of him.
If I were this unions leader I would daily be in contact with the ever so corrupt nmb for release and subsequent chaos .
No doubt the current governmental leverage enables DP pathetic relations with labor, that however will not ever result in a sellout / prostate position by me.

FA

 

[Reed Richards]

I was paying USAPA dues before it began collecting dues. If I want to criticize my union when it embarks upon stupid activity (which you seem to endorse), then the last person to dissuade me from doing so is the resident comic book hero wannabe. The voting body brought us the 'permanent injunction'. The merger is NOT dead. My comment regarding a return to ALPA was rhetorical, hypothetical and obviously over your head. My disdain for the Nic far exceeds my disappointment with ALPA. Look at the faces of many serving (past and present) in the union today, just a different sign on the door.

I'm not a USAPA hater. I just happen to have a built in koolaid detector. Call me Koolaid Killer.

Of course you can criticize, and I can cringe at and criticize your commentary. You have not seen USAPA's response yet to the DOJ filing, yet you already call it stupid. And your suggestion I did not see the true meaning of your desired ALPA return is laughable. A little embarrassed backpedalling on your part is what I perceive. RR

 

[Metroyet]

USAPA and all the other participants agreed on an MOU that took all seniority issues aside with a M/B esque process that would have occurred AFTER the now failed merger. It was the West Class and our back stabbing management that strode into the courtroom and did exactly the opposite. I am sure your so called braying "hard liners" (that would be the voting body called the BPR) will appropriately respond to current events. Meanwhile you and the other USAPA haters can join the other jackasses at the union you want to return to, ALPA. RR

You're failure to understand the document you ratified isnt anybody else's problem. Silver gets it. That's all that matters.

 

[snapthis]

USAPA and all the other participants agreed on an MOU that took all seniority issues aside with a M/B esque process that would have occurred AFTER the now failed merger. It was the West Class and our back stabbing management that strode into the courtroom and did exactly the opposite. I am sure your so called braying "hard liners" (that would be the voting body called the BPR) will appropriately respond to current events. Meanwhile you and the other USAPA haters can join the other jackasses at the union you want to return to, ALPA. RR

There's always a scapegoat.

Do you write for the National Enquirer too, RR?

It looks like the APA is against the DOJ's action.

"For now, your APA leadership will be focused on the legal process ahead along with our goal of obtaining antitrust approval for our proposed merger and eventual exit from bankruptcy. As more details become available, we will communicate them to you as quickly as possible."

I just heard from USAPA.

The silence is deafening.

USAPA looking out for USAPA.

 

[Phoenix]

USAPA needs to be on the right side of this issue. The merger and the Nic are two separate efforts. For reasons of past history with the management of LCC and the mutual distrust which exists, the union hard liners may feel it imprudent to endorse the merger at this time, until more is known regarding DP's strategy with the DOJ. I'm referring to possible violations of the Scope clause, which is still in effect and remains so until a POR is executed.

But to use the merger delay as an opportunity to gain leverage in the Nic litigation is a mistake. And if USAPA actually comes out against the merger, then like the permanent injunction, they will render themselves permanently irrelevant going forward. They will simply be circumvented by most of the pilot group who will seek other means to voice support for the merger along with the other employee groups. They will place themselves opposite the APA. Not a good idea going into the M/B process if the DOJ delay is resolved.

The union is at risk of relegating itself to barking from the sidelines. If so, the hard liners need to adopt a new slogan - 'Full Bray to the Last Day!'.

'84

The problem with pilots is that they have no clue how to negotiate.... I am afraid most do not even have the situational awareness to see when they are in negotiations. The majority of pilots want to fix things and always jump to the conclusion that the time is now and more must be done.

However , the most influential people in the the world have the discipline to practice the truism that "Less is more. Most of the time."

 

[Reed Richards]

There's always a scapegoat.

Do you write for the National Enquirer too, RR?

It looks like the APA is against the DOJ's action.

"For now, your APA leadership will be focused on the legal process ahead along with our goal of obtaining antitrust approval for our proposed merger and eventual exit from bankruptcy. As more details become available, we will communicate them to you as quickly as possible."

I just heard from USAPA.

The silence is deafening.

USAPA looking out for USAPA.

You heard yesterday exactly what you wanted to hear from the newly appointed West Class reps. I guess Silver already gave them the exciting news of their coronation! RR

 

[Phoenix]

Dave & family don't like the facts so they continue the same old arguments to justify Nicolau. Like somehow the "award" is the Ten Commandments engraved in stone. Honor, integrity, ethical, lawful.... Just empty words coming from another AOL mouthpiece. They keep spending money on a failed cause and now the merger is in jeopardy. (I don't mean the game show, Dave). Oh wait....I'm on his ignore list.

You are wasting your breath. He has his head buried deep, and won't be pulling it out to take another peak at your posts (and Claxon's too) for at least another ten minutes... Like clockwork...

Truth is he hangs on every word. It's like quitting cigarettes. The ones who announce to everyone they are quitting... They are ashamed that they are still indulging. Sorta like fat people that always talk about dieting.

 

[traderjake]

The problem with pilots is that they have no clue how to negotiate.... I am afraid most do not even have the situational awareness to see when they are in negotiations. The majority of pilots want to fix things and always jump to the conclusion that the time is now and more must be done.

The problem with USAPA supporters is they don't understand it takes unity and leverage to negotiate a contract.

They're more interested in stealing $125 jobs than getting a decent contract.

 

[nic4us]

USAPA and all the other participants agreed on an MOU that took all seniority issues aside with a M/B esque process that would have occurred AFTER the now failed merger. It was the West Class and our back stabbing management that strode into the courtroom and did exactly the opposite. I am sure your so called braying "hard liners" (that would be the voting body called the BPR) will appropriately respond to current events. Meanwhile you and the other USAPA haters can join the other jackasses at the union you want to return to, ALPA. RR

First, the MOU calls for MB. Not some form of uscab-esque modification to MB....but straight up MB, as is now federal law.

Second, how did the company back stab a back stabbing bunch of malcontent whiners? The fact that uscaba is in violation of their DFR has been obvious to all since the scab unions inception. The 9ths ruling just postponed the inevitable, and now the day of reckoning is at hand.

Third, word on the street is that uscaba's silence on the DOJ issue is because they are trying to use it to leverage the company in Addington III. Stupid plan if true. The company is well aware of the over reaching idiots playbook, and will probably put uscaba in a very dark hole if they even so much as hint at linking the merger to Addington.

 

[Piedmont1984]

Of course you can criticize, and I can cringe at and criticize your commentary. You have not seen USAPA's response yet to the DOJ filing, yet you already call it stupid. And your suggestion I did not see the true meaning of your desired ALPA return is laughable. A little embarrassed backpedalling on your part is what I perceive. RR

Fine, criticize my commentary. Leave the ad hominem in the schoolyard. My initial posts are directed at the gallery.

USAPA has already endorsed the merger. They promoted the MOU. Three quarters voted in favor. The rank and file wish to see the merger succeed.

No back pedaling here. If I thought for a moment that returning to ALPA would bury the Nic once and for all, I would subordinate my affiliation to a particular union logo in order to defeat what is truly unjust. Unlike you, who espouses tribalism above everything else. No way ALPA can or would make such an offer, but if they did...

 

[Reed Richards]

The problem with USAPA supporters is they don't understand it takes unity and leverage to negotiate a contract.

They're more interested in stealing $125 jobs than getting a decent contract.

So says an admitted dues deadbeat who argues here he does not need to "read" the MOU to make an argument. You have to participate in the process AND be informed before unity. Unless of course you meant "blind" unity. RR

 

[Phoenix]

The problem with USAPA supporters is they don't understand it takes unity and leverage to negotiate a contract.

They're more interested in stealing $125 jobs than getting a decent contract.

Said the cantankerous outlier.

 

[Reed Richards]

<p>

No back pedaling here. If I thought for a moment that returning to ALPA would bury the Nic once and for all, I would subordinate my affiliation to a particular union logo in order to defeat what is truly unjust. Unlike you, who espouses tribalism above everything else. No way ALPA can or would make such an offer, but if they did...

OK, I understand but do not share your view on returning to ALPA. Leaving that tribe was about MUCH more than just the NIC for me. But you have a lot of company. Aside, have you considered the repercussions to ALPA members if there is a large award to the TWA pilots? RR

 

[nevergiveup]

First, the MOU calls for MB. Not some form of uscab-esque modification to MB....but straight up MB, as is now federal law.

Second, how did the company back stab a back stabbing bunch of malcontent whiners? The fact that uscaba is in violation of their DFR has been obvious to all since the scab unions inception. The 9ths ruling just postponed the inevitable, and now the day of reckoning is at hand.

Third, word on the street is that uscaba's silence on the DOJ issue is because they are trying to use it to leverage the company in Addington III. Stupid plan if true. The company is well aware of the over reaching idiots playbook, and will probably put uscaba in a very dark hole if they even so much as hint at linking the merger to Addington.

Stay quiet while the west is sold off. Wish them the best and move ahead. Make the DOJ happy!

 

[Pi brat]

The problem with USAPA supporters is they don't understand it takes unity and leverage to negotiate a contract.

They're more interested in stealing $125 jobs than getting a decent contract.

What happened to the movement to replace USAPA that was floating around Chip's group a while back?