August 2013 Pilot Discussion

[Reed Richards]

"PSA pilots will not chase jobs East."
"More planes than God can count."
"Most guys will retire at 62, 63, 64.........never mind"
"They will never get enough cards"
"The senior 737 guys will leave before they will go to AB school."
"Nothing can stop the AA/U merger, nothing!"
"Junior guys will quit in droves to get hired on the bottom at DL and UAL"
Excepting the Easter Bunny and Santa rumors, anyone have any more of these "truths" to add? RR

 

[Beancounter]

Bean, not trying to get into it with you, at all. But you mention, as have others, that the only way to get a contract stand alone is to use the Nic. Barring a court order, you will never, ever see a contract go out for a vote with the NIC in it. Once the Ninth has its say to the Company, they may or may not be willing to bargain. Since Parker just lost his "out" on this entire affair, I have no idea what they will do or not do seniority wise, rather what they will argue for in Section 22. But again, the NIC will never go out for a member vote. A contract with the NIC will never make it past the BPR. Look at the makeup of the current BPR. Never going to happen. RR

Hey, I'm not disagreeing with you, I understand what you're saying. Anything other than the Nic though, puts not just USAPA, but the company also, "on dangerous ground." If this merger falls through, Doug is going to be watching the bottom line carefully, that is if he doesn't go to American. My understanding is that he's already bought a home in Dallas. There is no way you'll be able to force the company to give you a contract that makes it liable. No court will force it and you/we will never be released to force it either. You've given the company the perfect reason/ability to keep you on a bankruptcy contract. The west in turn is stuck on their contract. While it's a lot better than the east's, it's far behind the industry on hourly pay.

Bean

 

[Reed Richards]

Hey, I'm not disagreeing with you, I understand what you're saying. Anything other than the Nic though, puts not just USAPA, but the company also, "on dangerous ground." If this merger falls through, Doug is going to be watching the bottom line carefully, that is if he doesn't go to American. My understanding is that he's already bought a home in Dallas. There is no way you'll be able to force the company to give you a contract that makes it liable. No court will force it and you/we will never be released to force it either. You've given the company the perfect reason/ability to keep you on a bankruptcy contract. The west in turn is stuck on their contract. While it's a lot better than the east's, it's far behind the industry on hourly pay.

Bean

Yes, I agree with you also. We have NO options to get out of our situation anytime soon without a merger. Unless there is a reason the Company wants a merged group, we all better get used to status quo. And you made a real zinger of a point I have not considered...Parker going to the stand alone AMR. Throw me in that briar patch, they can have him! RR

 

[EastUS1]

I had two AWA pilots in my new hire class.

Fleeing AWA, or just eagerly awaiting their chance to finally realize their secret dream and go there? 😉

 

[EastUS1]

And you made a real zinger of a point I have not considered...Parker going to the stand alone AMR. Throw me in that briar patch, they can have him! RR

One can only hope! 🙂 Umm...although I'd honestly hate to wish that on the AMR people, or anyone else anywhere, for that matter.

Never forget that, per their very own "cutesie-pie-frat-kids" internal emails: "industry standard contracts" = "silly stuff"...Tee-hee girls....Just look at how pathetic all those stupid and incredibly gullible employees really are! I can only wonder when "doug" or the like of such first-name-basis-"buddies" will again show their faces at another employee "news" session. My suggestion to all would be to never waste more time making complete fools/tools of yourselves by attending any such, but that's just my thoughts.

 

[electricjet98]

"PSA pilots will not chase jobs East."
"More planes than God can count."
"Most guys will retire at 62, 63, 64.........never mind"
"They will never get enough cards"
"The senior 737 guys will leave before they will go to AB school."
"Nothing can stop the AA/U merger, nothing!"
"Junior guys will quit in droves to get hired on the bottom at DL and UAL"
Excepting the Easter Bunny and Santa rumors, anyone have any more of these "truths" to add? RR

The East has enough smart pilots that will never vote for USAPA.

 

[EastUS1]

One thing for sure, there will be a mass exodus off the bottom of both lists when this merger tanks. Parker will have his hand full maintaining schedule. It is coming.
Ask any person on the property with a couple of years.

I'd think it'll be a bit more time than that, since decent outfits will have to again be in the hiring mode, but yes, ceteris paribus; exodus among the youth of this place seems both inevitable and fully reasonable to expect.

 

[EastUS1]

The East has enough smart pilots that will never vote for USAPA.

Yes, yes indeed, and "You won't even get 200 cards!" Sigh! We know. 😉 Meanwhile; the west certainly has enough "smart pilots" to fantasize themselves as an entire "army" of "spartans", or in your evidenced case; perhaps prescient oracles of boundless wisdom and foresight...? 🙂

 

[Black Swan]

If the merger fails, I don't think there will be an immediate mass exodus. Where are they going to go? Virgin? Spirit? Allegiant? Yeah, right. US has its problems, but it's way better than those places. I do agree there will eventually be one though. Once Delta, United, Southwest, and Alaska start up the hiring in a year or two. If by then there is no sign of a new contract, then yeah, you'll probably see the bottom pilots on the west and the east gone. That is unless USAPA accepts the Nic and moves on for a new contract. We all know how that's going. Baring that, management will be more than happy to keep the east on LOA93 and since apparently the east isn't hurting all that bad, it will be status quo. I'm just glad I've got several thousand 121 PIC, so I should be marketable, once the hiring kicks in. Who knows though, maybe the merger will go through 🙂

Bean

I make it a point to talk with them, and sometimes fly with them. They are really considering their options and options they will have. I see a large number leaving when UAL and DAL start hiring. Wait until Parker opens his mouth and tells a pilot meeting how he can't afford to give any raises. That will kick it off.
Status quo we shall have. The East pilots will take the PBGC at 60 and keep on going. That will be the raise.

 

[EastUS1]

I make it a point to talk with them, and sometimes fly with them. They are really considering their options and options they will have. I see a large number leaving when UAL and DAL start hiring. Wait until Parker opens his mouth and tells a pilot meeting how he can't afford to give any raises. That will kick it off.
Status quo we shall have. The East pilots will take the PBGC at 60 and keep on going. That will be the raise.

Agreed sir. I've formerly offered the most junior I encounter some honest optimism towards their having the chance at an "actual airline career" with the merger with AMR, but now...not-so-much can be said, and no pom poms can be flourished. Unless some machina deus induced, complete change of management quickly takes place...well...

 

[Reed Richards]

I make it a point to talk with them, and sometimes fly with them. They are really considering their options and options they will have. I see a large number leaving when UAL and DAL start hiring. Wait until Parker opens his mouth and tells a pilot meeting how he can't afford to give any raises. That will kick it off.
Status quo we shall have. The East pilots will take the PBGC at 60 and keep on going. That will be the raise.

The new hire I just flew with had no intention of leaving. At 33, he can simply wait us all out, high pay or not. It was an interesting trip, as we talked about women and flying! My normal conversation playbook was of no interest to him. He will outlast all this ugliness by simply staying healthy. RR

 

[Phoenix]

The new hire I just flew with had no intention of leaving. At 33, he can simply wait us all out, high pay or not. It was an interesting trip, as we talked about women and flying! My normal conversation playbook was of no interest to him. He will outlast all this ugliness by simply staying healthy. RR

If he expects to remain healthy, he needs to forgoe the women and the flying.

 

[EastUS1]

If he expects to remain healthy, he needs to forgoe the women and the flying.

Indeed....but then; what would be the possible point in any continued heartbeats and breaths? 🙂

“Life should not be a journey to the grave with the intention of arriving safely in a pretty and well preserved body, but rather to skid in broadside in a cloud of smoke, thoroughly used up, totally worn out, and loudly shouting "Holy Sh-t! What a Ride!” Hunter S. Thompson

 

[algflyr]

Indeed....but then; what would be the possible point in any continued heartbeats and breaths? 🙂

Hear Hear!!

 

[Claxon]

I see this is making the rounds again:

Katz & Ranzman, P.C. KATZ & RANZMAN
5028 Wisconsin Avenue, N.W., Suite 250 A t t o r n e y s a t L a w
Washington, D.C. 20016

May 3, 2007
VIA E-MAIL
Captain Philip Carey
Captain Robert Kirch
First Officer Kevin Barry
Re: US Airways-America West Seniority Integration Award

Dear Phil, Bob and Kevin:

Capt. McNerlin, appears on the combined list immediately senior to US pilot, DOH: x/xx//81.

The next group comprises the next most senior 167 US pilots and the top 90 AW
pilots who were flying on 1/1/07. These positions correspond to the B757 Captain jobs
as of 1/1/07. Forty-eight pilots in non-flying status (MGT, MED and LOA) are reinserted
into this group, as with the top group.


Very truly yours,
/s/ Daniel M. Katz
Daniel M. Katz​

Randy Mcnerlin is a america west scab.

http://usatoday30.usatoday.com/travel/flights/2007-06-26-amwest-senior-pilot_N.htm

"The next group comprises the next most senior 167 US pilots and the top 90 AW
pilots who were flying on 1/1/07. These positions correspond to the B757 Captain jobs"

How much do your scab 757 america west pilots make more than the narrow body, zero.


Scabs