August 2013 Pilot Discussion

[EastUS1]

Sure. That explains the constant flow of contributions.

Well...Three categories of people come instantly to mind there:

1) The more rational: We've invested X much already and might as well see it through.
2) The most pathetic: "Waaah!...I'm just a young punk, mindless zealot, feeling an overwhelming sense of entitlement, and a full-blown 'spartan' cultist to boot...so just gimme my nic!...Waaah!"
3) Per P. T. Barnum: "There's a sucker born every minute."

You pick.

 

[luvthe9]

Yes, yes indeed. As you've previously posted; your stated expectations are for "Billions in damages". 🙂 Good luck with ever seeing so much as a penny. Seriously...just grow up!

Yo NIC, check behind the seat cushions, you might find a penny or two..

 

[luvthe9]

Sure. That explains the constant flow of contributions. Don't you just wish one of your commentaries had at least a SILVER, oops sliver of truth? Soon Cupcake.

There is a constant flow alright but it's not money.

 

[Freighterguynow]

Yes, yes indeed. As you've previously posted; your stated expectations are for "Billions in damages". 🙂 Good luck with ever seeing so much as a penny. Seriously...just grow up!

I'm curious how the West thinks damages are going to be awarded. You can't have any unless you can pin down an exact amount and quantify them. We never got to a joint bid so you can't quantify the nic positions you could've held out East, no contract was ever produced so you, again, can not quantify lost pay (rates) or even document the date a potential agreement would've gone into effect. It's nothing but speculation on all fronts and no court is going to award specific monies on speculatory grounds.

Heck, AOL did ask for damages but it's just to cover legal fees and that's it.

 

[Claxon]

The donors list at AOL contains pilots of all seniority levels, but is weighted heavily by captains, many very senior captains. the Addington plaintiffs come from every level of seniority within the West pilot group.

Got any other ....oh , wait I did not answere you "try not paying Marty" comment. Uscaba is going to do that for us!

How many pilots do you have out west? The contributors list is small compared to the total group.

http://www.cactuspil...ntributors.com/

 

[traderjake]

Bill McKee - If only we were as unified as the West is.

 

[cleardirect]

How many pilots do you have out west? The contributors list is small compared to the total group.

http://www.cactuspil...ntributors.com/

Once again Mike you prove that east pilots either can't read and understand English or you just flat lie about proven facts.

There are 1650 west pits on the west seniority list. 870 have contributed $1500 or more. That does not include those that have given less than $1500 but have still contributed.

Do the math Mike. 870/1650= 52.7%

What is it you east pilots tell us all the time about the majority? More than 50% is the majority not a small group. What is it that usapa tries to lie to the court about? That the DFR is being brought by just a small group of west pilot? Another false statement by usapa.

 

[PullUp]

Once again Mike you prove that east pilots either can't read and understand English or you just flat lie about proven facts.

There are 1650 west pits on the west seniority list. 870 have contributed $1500 or more. That does not include those that have given less than $1500 but have still contributed.

Do the math Mike. 870/1650= 52.7%

What is it you east pilots tell us all the time about the majority? More than 50% is the majority not a small group. What is it that usapa tries to lie to the court about? That the DFR is being brought by just a small group of west pilot? Another false statement by usapa.

98% westies vote for the MOU, abandoning the current contracts and opting for a new path and process towards unity.
Kind of tells the tale, doesn't it? This, along with a pay raise and the opportunity to work for the largest airline in the world - how can you say you are being unfairly represented?
I think the judge will sit on this until december, when she will dismiss for ripeness.
At that point the issue will probably be moot anyway.
Cheers.

 

[cleardirect]

Yet another example of usapa and east pilots ignoring the facts and intentionally lying to the court. From the statement of "facts" as usapa sees them.

28. The ALPA/Nicolau list incorrectly described 326 US Airways pilots as on
furlough when in fact they were actively flying at US Airways subsidiary Mid-Atlantic
Airlines. (Doc. 74-6, USAPA Ex. “105,” US Airways Master Executive Council
(“MEC&rdquo😉 Presentation to ALPA Executive Council, May 21, 2007)


Maybe usapa intentionally forgot about the MDA grievance they lost in 20012 that said the MDA pilots were indeed furloughed. Usapa never let's facts and reality get in the way of their "facts"
From the arbitrator in the MDA grievance. Yet again east pilots denying the results of an arbitration.

Page 27
In light of the foregoing factors, the weight of the evidence convincingly establishes that furloughed Mainline pilots remained in that furlough status while they worked for MDA. Given that fact, the clear language of Mainline Agreement Section 23(A) precludes those pilots from receiving longevity credit for the time they spent working at MDA.


Telling the court untruths will get you deep in trouble with the judge. No wonder judge Silver is biased. N you have proven to lie to the court. Judges will always side with the party that tells the truth and rule against the party that lies.

 

[cactusboy53]

I'm curious how the West thinks damages are going to be awarded. You can't have any unless you can pin down an exact amount and quantify them. We never got to a joint bid so you can't quantify the nic positions you could've held out East, no contract was ever produced so you, again, can not quantify lost pay (rates) or even document the date a potential agreement would've gone into effect. It's nothing but speculation on all fronts and no court is going to award specific monies on speculatory grounds.

Heck, AOL did ask for damages but it's just to cover legal fees and that's it.

AOL has initially asked for legal fees.

Damages? Who knows? A US Federal Judge was ready, willing and able to start right up the damages road until the appeals court decided (2-1) that the case was not quite ripe (YET).

Do you suppose a Federal judge might ask these questions:

• While the two properties were ALPA, the AAA MEC instructed the AAA members to depart from the Joint Negotiating table, leaving only the company and the America West Negotiating team. I wonder if the AAA Negotiating team were to remain engaged.....would a joint contract have been achieved for a vote?
• Having a JCBA with substantial improvements compared to the sad epitaph of LOA93, could one assume that the majority would have voted it it, and thus create future bids? $40,000.00 to $60,000.00 (NB Captain pay) in monetary improvements (plus TONS of extra time off and schedule improvements) is powerful evidence that not everyone could be that stupid. A retiring A330 Captain leaving at the end of 2012 will have lost over $750,000.00 in wage improvements & scheduling improvements (Assuming a contract in 2007-08, and a second post-merge contract like DAL).

Rage against the machine, my friend. This merger will destroy the USAPA delay game.

CB

 

[cleardirect]

98% westies vote for the MOU, abandoning the current contracts and opting for a new path and process towards unity.
Kind of tells the tale, doesn't it? This, along with a pay raise and the opportunity to work for the largest airline in the world - how can you say you are being unfairly represented?
I think the judge will sit on this until december, when she will dismiss for ripeness.
At that point the issue will probably be moot anyway.
Cheers.

Why would she sit on it just to dismiss it? Does not make sense.

Besides if in fact we all voted for a different method of integration (M/B). M/B is not allowed to be used for mergers that happened prior to dec 2007 or internal union integration.

The west voted for M/B to be used to integrate us airways pilots and American pilots.

In addition it was the east pilots that got a much bigger portion of the benefit of the contract not the west.

 

[Claxon]

IN THE UNITED STATES DISTRICT COURT
FOR THE DISTRICT OF ARIZONA
US Airways, Inc.,
Plaintiff,
vs.
Don Addington, et al.,
Defendants.
))))))))))
No. CV-10-01570-PHX-ROS
AMENDED JUDGMENT
(to add description of class)
Pursuant to the Court’s resolution of the motions for summary judgment,
IT IS ORDERED Counts I and III of the complaint are dismissed and judgment is
entered in favor of US Airline Pilots Association on Count II of the complaint. US Airline
Pilots Association’s seniority proposal does not breach its duty of fair representation
provided it is supported by a legitimate union purpose. This judgment is binding on the
following class: “All pilots employed by US Airways in September 2008 who were on the
America West seniority list on September 20, 2005.”

DATED this 4th day of December, 2012.

Judge Silver

 

[EastUS1]

There are 1650 west pits on the west seniority list.

Umm...west "pits"...?...And I'd thought the nic was the only list?

 

[EastUS1]

I'm curious how the West thinks damages are going to be awarded. You can't have any unless you can pin down an exact amount and quantify them. We never got to a joint bid so you can't quantify the nic positions you could've held out East, no contract was ever produced so you, again, can not quantify lost pay (rates) or even document the date a potential agreement would've gone into effect. It's nothing but speculation on all fronts and no court is going to award specific monies on speculatory grounds.

Agreed. The whole "Billions in damages" fantasy has always amazed me.

 

[EastUS1]

... could one assume.....

One can always assume anything one wishes. Doing so effects reality in not the slightest way.