August 2013 Pilot Discussion

[Claxon]

Stagnation for quite some time, or worse for the west if they continue to file frivolous law suits. The train is leaving the station, all aboard!

"Rationalizing “overhead structure” can be done quickly, while combining reservation systems could take a year, and it may be 18 months before the pair move to a single air operating certificate, allowing them to interchange crew and planes"

"“If we go and do the work and say maybe we would like to accelerate some airplanes, maybe delay some airplanes, maybe change some aircraft types, those are conversations airlines have all the time,” Parker said. “There may be some of that, we don’t know.”

http://www.bloomberg...html?cmpid=yhoo

 

[nic4us]

Gasp!...How will the world keep turning then? 🙂

....law of conservation of momentum....

It's axial rotation will, however, slow at the rate of 2.2 seconds/100,000 years.

 

[EastUS1]

....law of conservation of momentum....

It's axial rotation will, however, slow at the rate of 2.2 seconds/100,000 years.

Indeed. I rather suspect the little blue marble would/will continue turning with even the both of us gone. 🙂

 

[cleardirect]

Stagnation for quite some time, or worse for the west if they continue to file frivolous law suits. The train is leaving the station, all aboard!

"Rationalizing “overhead structure” can be done quickly, while combining reservation systems could take a year, and it may be 18 months before the pair move to a single air operating certificate, allowing them to interchange crew and planes"

"“If we go and do the work and say maybe we would like to accelerate some airplanes, maybe delay some airplanes, maybe change some aircraft types, those are conversations airlines have all the time,” Parker said. “There may be some of that, we don’t know.”

http://www.bloomberg...html?cmpid=yhoo

Why would it just be the west that stagnates? Parker has fixed the east. Got enough pilots for staffing and vacation and the new rest rules. The west has had attrition for the last 8 years that needs to be dealt with.

Plus Parker just got a new toy to play with and a new best friend. APA. Remember what Parker did when he got the east as a new toy? All the benefits went east with east flight ops management asking sure. Parker puts AMR flights ops and his new best friend Parker now stagnates the east and grows that west a little bit.

Easy enough to shift that flying from PHL to JFK. He has already transferred the route authority to AMR. Those 26 WB are going to look good with APA pilots in them. Don't forget the APA changed the MOU already and took out the WB protection pay.

Enjoy those 190's Mike. After all those east coast hubs were nothing more than regional hubs for short haul commuter flying. You easties can get back to your roots of short haul up and down the east coast.

 

[Claxon]

The golden goose AMR has been after all along, a PHX hub.

http://www.airlineroutemaps.com/USA/Southwest_Airlines_PHX.shtml

 

[EastUS1]

The west has had attrition for the last 8 years that needs to be dealt with.

Last we all heard, you were still overstaffed, but good luck with that.

 

[Claxon]

The west has had attrition for the last 8 years that needs to be dealt with.

The only attrition the west has had is for the pilots that were fired.

 

[nic4us]

This, I will defend the man on. Regardless of our extreme differences, and countless, mutual "nyaah-nyaahs" on these boards; nic4us has always agreed with me on the denial of jumpseats being a wholly inappropriate behavior. I've no reason to doubt his sincerity on that issue.

And I have no reason to change my position regarding jumpseat.

The reason some, and I think it is a very small few, have denied jumpseat is in fear of a retribution style snitch attack. I really do not fear this, as if I ever found myself doing the carpet dance in the chief pilot's office over some accusation a jumpseater made, I know how to handle that situation, and said jumpseater would rue the day they messed with the wrong guy.

To sum....all are welcome on the jumpseat of flights I operate. When east pilots ask for a ride or have to deadhead on my flights, I treat them with the same courtesy I extend to any fellow worker, and I expect and have received nothing less when I have had to deadhead on east metal. I was denied jumpseat the one time I asked on an east metal flight, but that just roves both sides have our weaker sisters.

 

[EastUS1]

I was denied jumpseat the one time I asked on an east metal flight, but that just roves both sides have our weaker sisters.

"...both sides have our weaker sisters." Indeed. I've never found any reasonable excuse for such behavior.

 

[PullUp]

Why would she sit on it just to dismiss it? Does not make sense.

Besides if in fact we all voted for a different method of integration (M/B). M/B is not allowed to be used for mergers that happened prior to dec 2007 or internal union integration.

The west voted for M/B to be used to integrate us airways pilots and American pilots.

In addition it was the east pilots that got a much bigger portion of the benefit of the contract not the west.

It is immaterial who got what benefit from the MOU. It can be argued that the west has reaped larger rewards since the AWA-US 'merger', making your assertions asinine. Also, we are piggy-backing on an ESTABLISHED AA contract, not a new one (yet). In this circumstance, it makes your statement even sillier.
The reason she'll sit on it is she:
a. doesn't want to be overturned or over-ruled by the 9th;
b. wants this issue to go away and never come back;
c. provide an airtight solution to the company's problem.
Why make a decision now? Wait and let things play out. As of right now, USAPA can do whatever it wants to do with respect to this issue.
There is no injunction, no orders (other than to try to find a settlement which will also make this go away), nothing.
Think about it...with a pending decision, can the west sue again? Can they appeal?
If USAPA and APA are smart, they will settle the seniority list in the first 90 day negotiation period, when M/B rules do not apply, and put the issue to bed. Once a list is produced, and the results are known, it will be hard for ANYONE to sue for DFR.
Then, the judge dismisses for ripeness.
End of story.

 

[PullUp]

Why would it just be the west that stagnates? Parker has fixed the east. Got enough pilots for staffing and vacation and the new rest rules. The west has had attrition for the last 8 years that needs to be dealt with.

Plus Parker just got a new toy to play with and a new best friend. APA. Remember what Parker did when he got the east as a new toy? All the benefits went east with east flight ops management asking sure. Parker puts AMR flights ops and his new best friend Parker now stagnates the east and grows that west a little bit.

Easy enough to shift that flying from PHL to JFK. He has already transferred the route authority to AMR. Those 26 WB are going to look good with APA pilots in them. Don't forget the APA changed the MOU already and took out the WB protection pay.

Enjoy those 190's Mike. After all those east coast hubs were nothing more than regional hubs for short haul commuter flying. You easties can get back to your roots of short haul up and down the east coast.

Up and down the east coast? Fine. As long as the pay is there, I'd do it in a 172.
Next.
The difference here is that all those east coast points are heavily populated business routes, not leisure/vacation destinations.
Where do you think the frequent fliers earn their points? Not flying to PHX to see the big ditch, or to Mexico to drink bad water.
AA has already started building the LAX hub. What does the crystal ball have in store for PHX? Enjoy seeing your prized Hawaii flying slide west to LA....

 

[Claxon]

And I have no reason to change my position regarding jumpseat......

To sum....all are welcome on the jumpseat of flights I operate. .....

......I was denied jumpseat the one time I asked on an east metal flight, but that just roves both sides have our weaker sisters.

The denial of jump seats to west pilots have been minimal, one.

The west pilots denied jump seats to East pilots in large numbers, make no mistake about it. The west attempts to make this denial of jump seats look even on both sides is an outright lie.

"USAPA alleges that the Defendant and their co-conspirators have
engaged in a concerted effort to deprive USAPA members the ability to
commute to work by denying them the use of the cockpit “jump seat” on
flights flown by West pilots and flights flown by pilots at other carriers. [Id.
at ¶113]. USAPA cites to several postings on the AWAPPA Web Board
which indicate the active solicitation of pilots at US Airways and other
airlines to deny the jump seat to USAPA members, including the following
postings:

• A posting on April 19, 2008 by Defendant
Gabaldon stating, “I will NOT allow any scab to ride
my jumpseat (in the interest of safety) .... I’m
networking all of ALPA friends at other carriers to
put forth motions before their MEC’s to deny
jumpseats to ALL USCABAS.” [Id. at ¶116];

• A posting on April 28, 2008 by Defendant Auxier
stating, “Hey, the UAL guys have the balls to deny
the Eastholes, the least we can do is follow suit.
They are the pariahs of the industry, and frankly I
think it IS unsafe to have them on our jumps ....”
[Id. at ¶117];

• A posting on April 22, 2008 by Defendant Metzker,
stating, “I passed along our jumpseat concerns to a
friend at Alaska ... and told him how to tell an
America West pilot apart by looking for the P
number on the back our id, right corner. He passed
19
it along to his MEC chair along with the link to our
AWAPPA donate page.” [Id. at ¶119];

• A posting on May 14, 2008 by Defendant Vasin,
relating a message received on the AWAPPA
website from an American Eagle pilot who wrote,
“Hi, Eagle guys have the Pxxxx information for
jumpseat usage, so you guys should be fine. Best
of luck, I have a lot of friends with your airline.” [Id.
at ¶119].

USAPA alleges that the denial of jump seats to USAPA members has
resulted in US Airways pilots being unable to commute to the cities in
which their scheduled flights were to originate. [Id. at ¶120].

 

[Claxon]

It is immaterial who got what benefit from the MOU. It can be argued that the west has reaped larger rewards since the AWA-US 'merger', making your assertions asinine. Also, we are piggy-backing on an ESTABLISHED AA contract, not a new one (yet). In this circumstance, it makes your statement even sillier.
The reason she'll sit on it is she:
a. doesn't want to be overturned or over-ruled by the 9th;
b. wants this issue to go away and never come back;
c. provide an airtight solution to the company's problem.
Why make a decision now? Wait and let things play out. As of right now, USAPA can do whatever it wants to do with respect to this issue.
There is no injunction, no orders (other than to try to find a settlement which will also make this go away), nothing.
Think about it...with a pending decision, can the west sue again? Can they appeal?
If USAPA and APA are smart, they will settle the seniority list in the first 90 day negotiation period, when M/B rules do not apply, and put the issue to bed. Once a list is produced, and the results are known, it will be hard for ANYONE to sue for DFR.
Then, the judge dismisses for ripeness.
End of story.

Excellent bottom line summary.

 

[Claxon]

army of leonidas current and past attempts to stop USAPA from cleaning up the mess that ALPA caused.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JQR3fdglvGs

 

[traderjake]

If USAPA and APA are smart, they will settle the seniority list in the first 90 day negotiation period, when M/B rules do not apply, and put the issue to bed.

APA wants slotting by equipment with minimum fences (around the W/Bs only).

Good luck getting USAPA to agree to that.

This is going to arbitration.