US Airways - AWA ALPA EMB-190 Dispute

[OTSmyth]

There is, of course, still the wholly-owned flowthrough.

 

[SegmentKing]

Zero.There are plenty who are interested. I'm based in PHX but I live in MKE so I might be interested. If not enough West people bid the vacancies then there should be no problem giving them to Easties. What don't you understand? The furloughees will be recalled as vacancies open regardless.

Ok, I didn't think of that. My bad.

So we can get some of the guys flying out West who live out East a new option, and then the guys on furlough can opt to work West out of PHX.

Makes sense.

 

[Dorf]

The furloughees will be recalled as vacancies open regardless.

Just like the 200 vacancies on the west side that were going to be available for east furloughees a while back? Or will the positions vacated be absorbed by the company like those 200 were? Just curious.

Dorf

 

[EMBFA]

There is, of course, still the wholly-owned flowthrough.

i dont know about pilots but "WOS F/As" thats what the contract calls them! only have flow through rights as long as MidAtlantic operations remain on the property, so they no longer have a flow through. thats a shame i'd rather work with them than new hires.

 

[Dorf]

There is, of course, still the wholly-owned flowthrough.

I was told by a friend who works at a wholly-owned that the flowthrough was essentially "dead in the water" because of the PDT pilots not wanting/allowing/negotiating the flow back for the MDA pilots in their rightful seniority. Didn't the PDT pilots want to put them at the bottom as "new hires" or f/o's when they were senior capt's before? Or was it that they could only flow back if there was a vacancy,which really isn't a flow back at all is it? Isn't there also something about "ghost numbers" that the PDT pilots, who didn't want to take a chance on MDA, want re-instated? And I also heard the PSA pilots want nothing to do with any of it, J4J, backfill, or flow back. Is this not true?

But staying on topic...Have the AWA pilots signed on to the flowthrough/flow back since it will also be part of their agreement? Or have they not even been included in the process? Because if they are not afforded the opportunity to bid on the 190's for whatever reason, and for some strange reason not enough furloughees take the positions, and pilots flow through from a wholly-owned (if there is even an agreement), there probably be a real sh*tstorm over that. But if there is no agreement in place, then there really isn't anything else adding to the dispute over the 190's.

Dorf

 

[Bluestreak]

WOed flow-through isn't dead, but it is nearly dead. The four parties (PSA, PDT, Mainline, and MDT) can't come to an agreement. It's a shame because flow-through could be benificial to all parties. The problem is everyone wants too much for their side. Mainline pilots want to have rights at the WOed above current WOed pilots. The PSA pilots don't want to give anything in return for flow-through. PDT has nothing to offer anyone and won't take back former pilots that went to midatlantic, and the mid atlantic pilots think they are now entitled to be PSA captains until mainline recall.

 

[BoeingBoy]

Bluestreak,

You've stated in a nutshell why flow-through is a simple concept that's almost impossible to implement. The ideal solution is to forget about flow-through and just have everyone on one seniority list.

Of course, putting everyone on one seniority list is another simple concept that's hard to implement. :down:

Jim

 

[exB717Flyer]

Just like the 200 vacancies on the west side that were going to be available for east furloughees a while back? Or will the positions vacated be absorbed by the company like those 200 were? Just curious.

We're talking about pilots. Sorry for any confusion.

But staying on topic...Have the AWA pilots signed on to the flowthrough/flow back since it will also be part of their agreement? Or have they not even been included in the process?

This issue wasn't part of the Transition Agreement. No doubt it's included in the agenda of the ongoing Joint Negotiation Committee.

Because if they are not afforded the opportunity to bid on the 190's for whatever reason, and for some strange reason not enough furloughees take the positions, and pilots flow through from a wholly-owned (if there is even an agreement), there probably be a real sh*tstorm over that.

There's a dispute over the "certified" seniority list USA presented to AWA over the former MDA pilots. It will likely be settled in arbitration.

 

[Twicebaked]

i dont know about pilots but "WOS F/As" thats what the contract calls them! only have flow through rights as long as MidAtlantic operations remain on the property, so they no longer have a flow through. thats a shame i'd rather work with them than new hires.

Why would you say that? This company needs fresh new flight attendants. Were you born a flight attendant? I didn't think so!! That is not really fair to say that.

 

[aquagreen73s]

>>Would an AWA pilot flying a 737-300 out of PHX really want to transfer to DCA or PHL, where the cost of living is MUCH higher, to fly right seat in what is essentially an "RJ on steroids" ??<<

No, but they'd like to transfer anywhere so they could fly left seat in the 190.

 

[EMBFA]

Why would you say that? This company needs fresh new flight attendants. Were you born a flight attendant? I didn't think so!! That is not really fair to say that.

Thats true, but i just think of some of the people who are with Piedmont and such that have been jerked around and made sacrifices for the company like we have just to have planes parked and replaced with outside rjs.. it would be nice to at least offer some sort of preferential hiring. I agree though it would be nice to work with actual new hires but with the pay rates today i hope we can attract good ones

 

[OTSmyth]

I was told by a friend who works at a wholly-owned that the flowthrough was essentially "dead in the water" because of the PDT pilots not wanting/allowing/negotiating the flow back for the MDA pilots in their rightful seniority.

The Flowthrough is not dead in the water, The PDT MEC have been in discussions with the mainline committee for a year now. With the JNC, negotiating committee and the change in leadership at the mainline MEC, it has been a bit more difficult to coordinate. The current situation is that without a flowback agreement, PDT management can not bring anyone back to the property except as new hires. (Even ex-ALG and PDT).The PDT MEC has approached its management to hire back furloughed CEL as well as ML pilots.

Didn't the PDT pilots want to put them at the bottom as "new hires" or f/o's when they were senior capt's before? Or was it that they could only flow back if there was a vacancy,which really isn't a flow back at all is it? Isn't there also something about "ghost numbers"

There have been a lot of games played with numbers and definitions.

that the PDT pilots, who didn't want to take a chance on MDA, want re-instated?

Many had class dates that were subsequently cancelled, get the chance is more appropriate than take a chance.

Have the AWA pilots signed on to the flowthrough/flow back since it will also be part of their agreement? Or have they not even been included in the process?

The Wholly-owned MEC's have met with AWA in PHX, they have been briefed on the matter and continue to be apprised of the situation as we move forward.

 

[fly with US]

This is what I want to see. For every 190 slot taken by a HP pilot, I want to see one slot open up in the west for a furloughed pilot.

Because if you think about it, that 190 slot would have gone to a furloughed pilot, and the west side won't cry for one pilot gone....and just like that, there goes any chance for a recall for a furloughed pilot.

 

[Crzipilot]

Also on the WO flow through side, from what I hear, what was put on the table to PSA, there would be protection to those WO pilots who opted to NOT flow up, they can't be bumped. So for the bluestreaker, what does mainline want above those WO pilots. If you choose to flow up, then you should be bumped, if you choose not to, then you can't be.

 

[exB717Flyer]

...and just like that, there goes any chance for a recall for a furloughed pilot.

What part of a "vacancy" don't you understand? Regardless of which side gets the E190 positions the need for recalls is the same.