Big TWU meeting

[TIME FOR CHANGE]

Laughable. You accuse DC of being willing to settle for Govenment cheese and then advocate bringing down the airline. With your '92 seniority, it will be YOU lining up for the cheese after Uncle Bob outsources base maintanence and I bump you off the line. I've always liked Florida. 😛 😀 😛 😀 😛

Bring your winter boots old timer its cold in NY and thats were I will be in about three weeks LGA to be exact. Got to love that breeze off the bay in February 😀

18 years of concessions I've had enough seems you been on the concession train longer than me. Hows that goin for ya :huh:

 

[Just the Facts II]

Bring your winter boots old timer its cold in NY and thats were I will be in about three weeks LGA to be exact. Got to love that breeze off the bay in February 😀

Touche

Frustrated like everyone else... This is not the industry that I hired into.

 

[Bob Owens]

There you go Bob, why don't you propose in negotiations the company contract out an amount of overhaul similar to what SW does then freeze the pensions where they are and go to a match? Don't forget to increase the Line mechanics payrate up there where SW is...

Why would I do that?

SWA never had OH, they have slowly, very slowly been doing more work in house, AA has had the people and facilities in place for decades, I guess the costs to ramp up facilities would be contrary to the business plan that has made SWA successful despite flying cheaply on secondary routes.

 

[TIME FOR CHANGE]

Touche

Frustrated like everyone else... This is not the industry that I hired into.

me either
what happened to the good old days...

 

[eolesen]

This is not the industry that I hired into.

I've been hearing that for the past 24 years. I even caught myself saying it a few times...

 

[Bob Owens]

Sorry, I don't follow. 25% of Maintenance Expenses Outsourced is by far the lowest % of any airline.

Prior to 2002 we were one of the highest plus we had SRP/OSMs. We destroyed the profession with our concessions. We need to lead the fight to try and set us back on the right path and the time is now.

 

[DallasConehead]

Who says? Show me that language that prohibits the outsourcing of any OH?

8% 401k match on all earnings, and earnings averaging around $100+ K /year vs the $1100 they put in my pension thats based on my much smaller base pay? I'd take it.

Sounds like your language doesn't prohibit outsourcing OH and in fact isn't something that you advocate? Isn't it true you advocate doing away with the DP as well?

 

[Bob Owens]

Sounds like your language doesn't prohibit outsourcing OH and in fact isn't something that you advocate? Isn't it true you advocate doing away with the DP as well?

Advocate outsourcing? Not me, I'd rather have the stuff done in house where its usually done right. I once worked at AAR and I'm familiar with the junk they turn out.

DP!? Hey, whatever do in the privacy of your home is your business not mine.

If I were in my 20s and had the option of the AA DBP which is reliant on the company surviving not only our whole career but our retirement as well and the SWA DCP with its 8% match on all SWA wages I would choose the portable, borrowable SWA plan in a heartbeat. Just ask all the guys who ended up here from EAL, Pan Am and TWA how the DBP worked out for them. However we have too much invested in the plan and not enough years left at this point to change but if we could get the company to offer a decent contribution I would favor giving the new guys the option.

 

[Hopeful]

I agree with Bob. Given the opportunity as a young person first hiring on, a 401k match would probably work out better in the long run. What people sometimes forget is that most of us have too much invested in the DBP to have it now frozen and not feel the negative affects.
Changing the game past the midstream of someone's career is not only unfair, but could be devastating financially.
I have no problem with changing the option for new hires. A new hire will have the OPTION to take the job or not!

I may catch alot of flak or saying this, but simply grandfathering in all current workers and changing the rules for new hires would probably be the fairest.
They will have to make the decision as to whether or not as to come aboard.

 

[Kev3188]

No flak from me... I think that a one time choice for current employees is a win-win as well...

 

[Bob Owens]

I agree with Bob. Given the opportunity as a young person first hiring on, a 401k match would probably work out better in the long run. What people sometimes forget is that most of us have too much invested in the DBP to have it now frozen and not feel the negative affects.
Changing the game past the midstream of someone's career is not only unfair, but could be devastating financially.
I have no problem with changing the option for new hires. A new hire will have the OPTION to take the job or not!

I may catch alot of flak or saying this, but simply grandfathering in all current workers and changing the rules for new hires would probably be the fairest.
They will have to make the decision as to whether or not as to come aboard.

DB Pensions were used to lower wages, do you think that AA would have won the concessions if we only had a 401K? We are screwed but by building in portability for the next generation we may actually strengthen their hand in future negotiations. I know the annuity setup they have in the trades works very well, weak companies dont win concessions from workers, they go out of business and the workers take their Annuities with them to the next job. The thing is we have to have mandated contributions based on all hours worked from the company, not paltry matches based on a 2080 work year.

 

[DallasConehead]

Advocate outsourcing? Not me, I'd rather have the stuff done in house where its usually done right.

Explain to me how you can advocate a SWA type agreement? Without the double talk please.. Since AA has a little over 15 mechanics per aircraft and contracts out a little over 23% while SWA has nearly 3 mechanics per aircraft and contracts out nearly 62%. Do you really think you can have your cake and eat it too? Or are you just blowing smoke looking for followers?

 

[Hopeful]

Explain to me how you can advocate a SWA type agreement? Without the double talk please.. Since AA has a little over 15 mechanics per aircraft and contracts out a little over 23% while SWA has nearly 3 mechanics per aircraft and contracts out nearly 62%. Do you really think you can have your cake and eat it too? Or are you just blowing smoke looking for followers?

You are assuming AA will pay SWA wages should they outsource more. How about UPS and FEDEX wages? Even less mechanics. If this is the route AA wished to travel, then why wasn't it offered?
You give this company too much credit!

 

[eolesen]

If this is the route AA wished to travel, then why wasn't it offered?

That's a fair question. Why wasn't it offered in the TWU's opener to the company?

My guess on why the company hasn't proposed it lately is facilities. Labor is only part of the equation.

Walking away from leases is possible if AMR's lawyers can find the right loophole or trigger, but you can't just walk away from facilities you already own, and nobody seems willing to buy either AFW or TUL (despite years of rumors about FDX or UPS wanting AFW so they can get into the overhaul business...). You can add to that the fact that neither facility really lends itself to supporting line maintenance.

Like it or not, AA and the TWU committed to keeping overhaul in 2003, and now you guys are living with the ramifications of that.

 

[Hopeful]

That's a fair question. Why wasn't it offered in the TWU's opener to the company?

My point is that if overhaul is such a load on labor costs, you would think the company would have made the radical proposal in return for SWA or UPS or FDX wages. Don't expect the TWU to be that farsighted.

My guess is that they want TULE to basically be an MRO eventually staffed by workers making no more than any other MRO company in the US. This way it would even be more attractive for other carriers to brink their planes to TULE for heavy maintenance. Hence, some major $$$$$ coming in.
And I would also guess, that given the right agreement, the TWU would be the default bargaining agent for this MRO.

I believe that eventually and one way or another, the company will get what they want. But I also believe they will never agree to compensate us like SWA, UPS, or FDX....no matter what we give up.