Charlotte to Salt Lake City
- Thread starter JetguyCLT
- Start date
What equipment?
Tempe is more "just after the nick of time" type thinking.
agreed, why give up JAN < FEB < MAR ski season..
oh I forgot who we were talking about.
WorldTraveler
Corn Field
- Dec 5, 2003
- 21,709
- 10,721
no one should doubt that DL and US are competitors.... as the hand-holding for the past two years necessary to get the slot deal approved winds down, perhaps we'll see more of this kind of thing.
.
This flight is primarily a direct operating cost based flight (the costs are calculated based on the plane not flying at all and thus costs are generally allocated solely on the basis of direct costs such as crew, fuel etc but without overhead).... this type of DOC schedule is not as favorable for ski destinations where the primary desire is to arrive early in the day.
.
US also just announced Saturday only LGA-PHX service which is permissible since the LGA perimeter rule does not apply on Saturday.
.
This flight is primarily a direct operating cost based flight (the costs are calculated based on the plane not flying at all and thus costs are generally allocated solely on the basis of direct costs such as crew, fuel etc but without overhead).... this type of DOC schedule is not as favorable for ski destinations where the primary desire is to arrive early in the day.
.
US also just announced Saturday only LGA-PHX service which is permissible since the LGA perimeter rule does not apply on Saturday.
Oh? So now you are the expert on ski vacations? Is there any area of knowledge where you are not the leading expert? Nuclear physics, perhaps? For your information, I have been skiing for years; as have a number of my friends. I don't know a soul who wants to get up in the middle of the night to catch an early morning flight to the Western ski destinations. Only to be be dog-tired when you hit the slopes that day.
As I said, arriving early enough to get a good night's sleep at the ski destination BEFORE hitting the slopes is preferred by me and just about everyone I know. And, it has nothing to do with age. I've always booked my ski trips that way. And, with lift tickets pushing $100/day in most ski destinations now, the last thing you want to do is get only a half day of skiing the first day.
WorldTraveler
Corn Field
- Dec 5, 2003
- 21,709
- 10,721
you might want to check the arrival time for US' arrival.
You might also want to count the percent of skis that come off flights arriving at DEN and SLC (which have multiple banks of flights throughout the day) before 2 pm compared with what comes off in the evening or late night.
But we'll save you a trip to the airport... how about instead you just count the number of flights to ski specific destinations by all carriers (or you could use even your own AA) after 3 pm... and then compare that to the total number of flights throughou the day.
psst.... AA's ORD-EGE flight this winter departs at the horrific hour of 0915... just think how early passengers who are connecting at ORD are going to have to get up to catch that flight.
.
Just like cruise destinations, flights to ski destinations are heavily weighted to the early part of the day... which is why the new US flight CLT-SLC will not likely succeed based on ski activity.
SparrowHawk
Veteran
- Nov 30, 2009
- 7,824
- 2,707
WorldTraveler
Corn Field
- Dec 5, 2003
- 21,709
- 10,721
The facts will speak for themselves as to the time of day when ski passengers arrive at their destinations, unless of course airlines are so smart that they can force passengers to pay good money to fly when they don't want to. And since many ski flights are subsidized, then it would also mean that the ski resorts are willing to pay subsidies at times passengers don't really want to fly.
If airlines can pull that off, they aren't as dumb as alot of people make them out to be.
.
I'll be awaiting the ski counts - or even the counts by arriving flights will do.
.
In the meantime, we'll see in time how well US does on this flight... and if DL might decide to restart its own service.
.
turning a discussion personal doesn't change the facts.
If airlines can pull that off, they aren't as dumb as alot of people make them out to be.
.
I'll be awaiting the ski counts - or even the counts by arriving flights will do.
.
In the meantime, we'll see in time how well US does on this flight... and if DL might decide to restart its own service.
.
turning a discussion personal doesn't change the facts.
SparrowHawk
Veteran
- Nov 30, 2009
- 7,824
- 2,707
Well I'll just wait and see!
US is a cluster in many ways. However, the route planning folks under Mr Nocella do a pretty darn good job. I can't think of ANY post merger routes they have dropped that were also started post merger. I'm sure they are there but I don't recall any.
WorldTraveler
Corn Field
- Dec 5, 2003
- 21,709
- 10,721
perhaps you believe that I am saying the route wont' work.. that is not what I am saying. SLC is a big enough market, the 319 is a relatively small plane (I think that is what US is using, right?) and there clearly are people who will arrive late at night to ski, even if the majority of people arrive at ski destinations earlier in the day. SLC and DEN both are both near ski destinations but they are also large markets than have other characteristics.
.
I do think you have to factor in, though, that SLC is a medium hub at best and DL serves it quite well from the east, including from ATL, CVG, DTW, and MSP, all hubs that have plenty of "reach" into the east coast markets where US is also strong. There will be passengers that US will attract but DL's ability to carry traffic from the eastern US to SLC either on nonstops or via its hubs is far greater than any other airline. You need only look at DL's presence from cities as large as ORD to SLC where DL has a disproportionate amount of the service to SLC despite it being AA and UA's hub.
.
I'm not saying US can't make it, but they will be far more likely to pick up incremental, lower yielding traffic than they will higher value business traffic which demands the schedule flexibility that comes from a larger carrier in their own hub.
.
remember also that DL and US have had long-standing "discounting efforts" in each others' hubs which surprisingly have decreased while the slot deal has worked its way through.
.
I expect more of a return to business as usual between the two carriers.
and btw, Jim, a redeye return from a ski destination can be quite popular with some people because they can ski all day, head to the airport, and save a day of hotel expenses... it cuts both wans.
.
I do think you have to factor in, though, that SLC is a medium hub at best and DL serves it quite well from the east, including from ATL, CVG, DTW, and MSP, all hubs that have plenty of "reach" into the east coast markets where US is also strong. There will be passengers that US will attract but DL's ability to carry traffic from the eastern US to SLC either on nonstops or via its hubs is far greater than any other airline. You need only look at DL's presence from cities as large as ORD to SLC where DL has a disproportionate amount of the service to SLC despite it being AA and UA's hub.
.
I'm not saying US can't make it, but they will be far more likely to pick up incremental, lower yielding traffic than they will higher value business traffic which demands the schedule flexibility that comes from a larger carrier in their own hub.
.
remember also that DL and US have had long-standing "discounting efforts" in each others' hubs which surprisingly have decreased while the slot deal has worked its way through.
.
I expect more of a return to business as usual between the two carriers.
and btw, Jim, a redeye return from a ski destination can be quite popular with some people because they can ski all day, head to the airport, and save a day of hotel expenses... it cuts both wans.
To have the flight arrive in SLC early in the AM for the ski day, it would have to depart CLT about 3:00 - 4:00 AM. Not a good idea to collect other flyers.
