Contract Carriers In Bk?

[Light Years]

With the PIT downsizing, less reliance on 50 seaters and MDA and PSA's possible growth, will US keep all of those contract carriers?

Does it make sense for an broke airline to contract out 40% of the airline to outside airlines, making them profitable?

Since they are trying to get more money out of the US employees, how much are they wasting on contract RJ providers when they own two regional carriers?

And how much is wasted on having seperate facilities, management, and work groups for US Airways, Piedmont, PSA, and MidAtlantic? Heres an example: why are they hiring people off the street to staff MDA at PHL when theres already plenty of US Airways and Piedmont ground staff? There are three station managers, three administrative staffs, and three sets of middle management for each as well- at one station. US Airways is obsessed with hiding money and starting new divisions and subsidiaries that they can whipsaw against each other and create more management, complications, and bureaucracy for.

Its just a mystery how they can justify using all of these contract carriers they have to pay, and not just one but multiple ones.

 

[ringmaruf]

There were two things that most analysts said that US would go after in this bankruptcy. One was obviously labor costs.

The other was the RJ contracts, particularly the Mesa one. I don't think most people expect US to get rid of the affiliate RJ providers. I think that people just expect US to get their costs in line with other carriers, since Mesa/Chautauqua/Trans States have since given United significantly better deals than the deal US is getting, which was negotiated earlier.

 

[TBONEJ4J]

In view of the fact that Mesa/CHQ et al. continue to make sizable profits from the US Airways contracts, they are obviously receiving too great a margin.

If this bankruptcy is truly about a new business plan and not just decimating labor (as was the Siegel bankruptcy plan - labor cuts with absolutely no revenue ideas) then those handsome margins must go.

When the contract carriers are just breaking even, then the margin is just right. Then when all the capacity is being covered within Group, get rid of them.

The profits that those contract lift providers have made on the back of the US Airways brand would easily have kept US Airways out of bankruptcy had those same profits been kept in house with a more modest cost-plus contract.

 

[Winglet]

Fee for departure schemes need to go away and the expensive seat mile costs of RJs need to stand on their own instead of on the backs of more efficient aircraft.

 

[funguy2]

When the contract carriers are just breaking even, then the margin is just right. Then when all the capacity is being covered within Group, get rid of them.

Well, if the contract carriers only break-even, there is no incentive for them to continue to provide the service. And they may walk away, as Atlantic Coast did. It might be easier for Mesa to walk away and plan their own independent operation as, in the short term, it will almost assure that US Airways fails, and gives them viable markets to move into.

 

[usfliboi]

Tbone, if dave s plan was all about slashing labor, we would not be back in bk!!!!!!!!!1

 

[700UW]

Mesa was paid $232,000,000 for 50 RJs flying in the US Airways livery for the year 2002.

 

[Capecod]

Mesa was paid $232,000,000 for 50 RJs flying in the US Airways livery for the year 2002.

[post="181141"][/post]​

700UW, Please tell us how much revenue those 50 Mesa rjs made for U in 2002? My guess is both companys made a nice proft.

As for the whole contract carrier thing give me a break. I sure hope Snyder pertzel or coke cola arn't making a dime off U while they are taking a bath because that wouldn't be fair. :down: -Cape

 

[700UW]

Apparantly not much if US is back in bankruptcy.

And I won't layoff the contract carrier thing, it is a waste of money, would be smarter to keep the money inhouse instead of making JO a rich man.

 

[luvn737s]

When the contract carriers are just breaking even, then the margin is just right. Then when all the capacity is being covered within Group, get rid of them.

The profits that those contract lift providers have made on the back of the US Airways brand would easily have kept US Airways out of bankruptcy had those same profits been kept in house with a more modest cost-plus contract.

[post="180994"][/post]​

HP's contract with Mesa is cost-plus. HP shelters Mesa from all fuel price increases, insurance increases, etc. by paying every line item plus a profit. I wish I could get a guaranteed profit like that!

These contracts seemed to fall outside the ATSB radar. Why should a company that needs government assistance be in a position to act as an incubator for it's future competitor? Also, wasn't the ATSB loan guarantee designed to help avoid the collapse of major airlines following 9/11? How has giving taxpayer money to be used to pay leases on aircraft built in Brazil and Canada benefited the consumer?

 

[MidwayMetrolink]

Light Years,

You pose some very good questions. Prior to this past Sunday I would have said that you were maybe on to something....now, well, I don't know. As you know, financing is now at stake. Hopefully US AIRWAYS, their financiers, and Embraer will get things back on track soon and Mid-Atlantic and the wholly-owneds will continue their planned deliveries.

TBONEJ4J,

A few of us are sitting here in a state of confusion. In a recent post you lumped the contract carriers into one group called.....hang on let me find it I have to do a search......"Bottom Feeding Pretenders"......such managerial, leadership-like language. Could you define "Bottom Feeding Pretenders"??????

Let me try....."Bottom Feeding Pretenders".....people who "pretend to bottom feed?" That can't be it. Well let's break it down.

"Bottom-the lowest or undermost part, base, foundation."
"Feeding-The act of supplying with nourishment."

Now so far this looks like a compliment. So far we are the "Base of your nourishment." Now let's define "Pretender."

Ewwww.....Not a compliment. "Pretender-to allege falsely, to make false appearance or representation."

In other words the contract carriers are PRETENDING to be the base of your nourishment? Well if you are assuming that every employee does this you are wrong. I have never pretended to be the base of your nourishment.

A few questions for you:

*Are the "Jets for Jobs" folks that we have working for us Bottom Feeding Pretenders, as well, or are they exempt from this name?

*Are the thousands of mainline employees who started their careers at contract carriers Bottom Feeding Pretenders or are they FORMER Bottom Feeding Pretenders?

*Now I cannot speak for all the contract carriers with this next one, but I can speak for mine.....If a contract carrier has a better contract than a wholly-owned, do we keep the title Bottom Feeding Pretenders or does it transfer to them?

*When Suburban, Henson, Jetstream International, and Pennsylvania were contract carriers, were they Bottom Feeding Pretenders?

*Was I, and my fellow crew members, being Bottom Feeding Pretenders the other day when we were deadheading on one of our own flights and two of us took jumpseats so two mainline employees could non-rev?

*Were we being Bottom Feeding Pretenders recently when we had a jumpseating A330 First Officer commuter running late (MDA canceled the previous EMB 170 flight) so we beat feet to leave the gate early, then we begged PHL Approach to give us Runway 26 so he could make it to Frankfurt without delaying US AIRWAYS' customers?

*How about when we side stepped to Runway 26 a few weeks back so the 737 behind us did not have to go around? Were we Bottom Feeding Pretenders by trying to save your company possible fuel expenses?

*Was Allegheny Airlines a Bottom Feeding Pretender back in the 1960's when they started feeding TWA at JFK from a few smaller towns in Pennsylvania? Previously TWA served Williamsport, PA with the Connie and found it unprofitable.

*Are the many former wholly-owned and mainline employees who now work with me (and say they are never going back) Bottom Feeding Pretenders?

*Which Bottom Feeding Pretender was named "2004 Regional Airline fo the Year" by "Air Transport World"?

Believe it or not, I am actually a nice guy and I really dislike posting on here. I started being a Bottom Feeding Pretender before the RJ came along and we actually had turbo-props serving the towns that USAir gave up.

Please direct your energy to your REAL competition....a fleet of caterpillar-gut yellow airplanes that recently arrived in PHL.

 

[nycbusdriver]

Fee for departure schemes need to go away and the expensive seat mile costs of RJs need to stand on their own instead of on the backs of more efficient aircraft.

[post="181014"][/post]​

BINGO!

I nominate Winglet for USAirways CEO.

Or at least bankruptcy judge.

 

[Rico]

Well, all I have to say about this issue..

Is that any deal that our contracted carriers offered UAL, should be offered to US Airways as well...

 

[TBONEJ4J]

*Which Bottom Feeding Pretender was named "2004 Regional Airline fo the Year" by "Air Transport World"?

Chautauqua Airlines was named the 2004 Bottom Feeding Pretender by ATW.

Chautauqua is a Bottom-Feeder because your phenomenal growth has come from providing lift at a level of cost that is below others who tendered for the same lift contract. This would be commendable, except for the fact that by doing so you give airline management what they have long dreamed of. A means of destroying Contracts that have been won through the blood, sweat and tears of pilots who were fighting for a living probably before you were born.

You have the lowest cost, because you have undercut other operators by paying poorly, having an exceptionally junior workforce, and employing just about any pilot with a commercial multi certificate.

You are a bottom feeder because you and your ilk wait eagerly for the next hole in some airline's scope so you may put in the lowest bid to take that brand's flying for yourself.

That is why you are a Pretender. You pretend to be an airline that you are NOT. You are not US Airways, you are not Delta, you are not United, but you pretend to be all three. I may be mistaken, but I think you also pretend to be American in St. Louis. You pretend to be a Brand that you are not. I don't think any passenger has ever bought a ticket on Chautauqua Airlines, have they?

You and your fellow travellers at Mesa etc., etc. are all Bottom-Feeding Pretenders, and when your purpose has been served you will go away. But don't kid yourself that your part of a go-getter airline operation. You are no JetBlue, nor Southwest, nor AirTran. At least they are real competitiors flying their own brand. You are part of an insidious disease that eats away at and destroys real contracts. When those contracts have been destroyed, there will be no more need for the Pretender. While you are not a Scab, the impact on the industry of your type of operation has been the same.

It is not your fault the industry is where it is, but at least have the courtesy to recognise that your airline does not represent a step forward but many steps backward. 2004 Regional Airline of the Year Award Indeed! Just remember who is making the award.

 

[MidwayMetrolink]

TBONEJ4J,

Wow my ears hurt. You only answered one of my questions. Please answer the others if you get a chance and then we can talk meaningfully.

Oh and by the way, the blood sweat and tears that you are referring to.....most of it was done prior to deregulation and a few years afterward when everything was running on momentum.

And this poor pay you keep referring to, you're going to have to go a bit further. Describe poor pay. Please be specific. I can only speak for myself, but I have never missed a payment and live somewhat descently. Do you recall what Piedmont Airlines (original) First Officers started out with on the F28?