Crew chief seniority for mechanics after merge

[bob@las-AA]

700, depending on how it will nego into the new contract there very well could be loss of seniority.  Ex.  30 year man bids and is awarded CC.  5 year man already CC for 3 years.  New bid comes up after both these men are CC's for better days off.  5 year man with 3 years cat seniority, will prevail over the 30 year man that just came into the CC cat.  That sir, is a loss of seniority.  Seniority is seniority, it should follow you everywhere.  That 30 year man should carry his 30 years with him wherever he goes and into any new cat he bids into.  Although no one is technically losing his 30 years of seniority, they are in fact taking seniority away from the man when he starts all over because he bidded into the CC cat and is out bidded by a 5 year man with 3 years CC seniority.   When someone has 30 years with a co. he should never be knocked down just because he has moved into a different cat.  I know, some of us could argue this till the end of time, but I honestly feel your seniority should follow you everywhere.  Do you now see what I mean by loss of seniority?  It is a loss of seniority for bidding processes within a new cat...  Hope this clears up what I meant...

CC-FSC at AA is awarded based on the amount of Occ seniority an individual has as a FSC, not as a CC. A 30 year person just awarded a bid for CC will rise above a 3 year CC regardless how long that 5 years person has been  a CC. This will never change. I do think that when this full integration is over that all leads/CC will have to rebid for the CC/Lead.

 

[700UW]

There will not be a bump and flush.
 
At US a lead at least in maintenance gets his lead time by the day its awarded, if someone has 10 years company time and bids to a lead job, he will not be senior to anyone that is already lead, for days off and shift.

 

[WeAAsles]

CC-FSC at AA is awarded based on the amount of Occ seniority an individual has as a FSC, not as a CC. A 30 year person just awarded a bid for CC will rise above a 3 year CC regardless how long that 5 years person has been  a CC. This will never change. I do think that when this full integration is over that all leads/CC will have to rebid for the CC/Lead.

At $2.07 per hour if I was going to go all the way to the bottom in seniority by taking a CC position I wouldn't be interested ever. Just saying. Why would I want to sacrifice a good shift and weekends off when I can make even more money than that by doing one 4 hour early call per week?

And if it went the other way I could see a future where the CC would wind up having 5 years in the company with a crew of guys over 20 years. I,d of course do my job but I really honestly couldn't say that I'd be able to give much respect to a kid telling me what to do and think that I wouldn't be the only one feeling that way.

 

[WeAAsles]

There will not be a bump and flush.
 
At US a lead at least in maintenance gets his lead time by the day its awarded, if someone has 10 years company time and bids to a lead job, he will not be senior to anyone that is already lead, for days off and shift.

They may have to put a fence around certain stations if they want to maintain that ideology. IAM designated stations can continue the practice and TWU represented stations will maintain the way we're used to doing it.

 

[Slopoke]

They may have to put a fence around certain stations if they want to maintain that ideology. IAM designated stations can continue the practice and TWU represented stations will maintain the way we're used to doing it.

 
Oh boy, this will be really interesting on how it plays out. Don't forget about inspector seniority, we will have the same issues with that group. As a former inspector, I guess it may affect me in some way. If US Airways has Tech Crew Chiefs, that group will be in for some changes too.

 

[2ndGENAMT]

IMO the only seniority integration issues will be at stations where members will have their representation switched from IAM to TWU or TWU to IAM. The JCBA will basically have the same pay and benefits for everyone but they will have separate seniority lists. Who can say how it will play out as our paid Reps. are keeping very quiet!

 

[swamt]

 
Oh boy, this will be really interesting on how it plays out. Don't forget about inspector seniority, we will have the same issues with that group. As a former inspector, I guess it may affect me in some way. If US Airways has Tech Crew Chiefs, that group will be in for some changes too.

Correct.  It will affect all groups under the contracts with different cat's. Ex: Leads (CC at AA), inspectors, inspection leads (CC), MC, GSE, PMT's, FMT's, ect...  There is more to this than some are getting when it comes to these 2 different type's of seniority once one is moved into another cat.  One poster has posted that AA will have the numbers to out bid all US guys on any and all issues, "THIS" is exactly why you guys do not need this BS association to go thru, you guys will have to endure this type of voting and game playing for the rest of your careers.  The infighting between the 2 unions will never ever stop, the association will be so engulfed with the infighting between the 2 unions that the membership will not be represented like they should be.  And why would any of the US guys want this association knowing that AA (TWU) members will be able to hold and control the puppet strings of the US (IAM) by just the mere number differences?  I would never vote for that kind of representation and who ever would is an idiot.  This is only 1 example of many, many other differences between the way the 2 unions have their contracts, it is going to be a freakin nightmare working thru all this and will take alot longer than you all think it will.  Think about it people.  The infighting has already started as we all have seen.  When it comes to "trying" to settle into one single contract the infighting is going to greatly increase when it comes to who's language will remain between the 2 different way these 2 unions does certain things.  
If the US guys really knew how bad this association would affect them they would run from it. There is also enough AA'ers that are sick and tired of the TWU and their concessionary agreements over the 30 some odd years.  Vote this BS association down, there should be a run-off election between the TWU and the IAM plain and simple, but, I think this association would have to be voted down to force the run-off.  In the mean time maybe another union can get the cards needed to get on the ballot as well and the membership can then choose who they really want to represent them.  Good luck to you all, it's going to get very hectic for some time before you guys get a SCBA with this association.  You would be much, much better off with a single union representing you, not 2 different unions sharing the membership, how pathetic, let the infighting begin, as it has, and watch your representation go down the toilet.  "NO" to the TWU/IAM association...

 

[swamt]

IMO the only seniority integration issues will be at stations where members will have their representation switched from IAM to TWU or TWU to IAM. The JCBA will basically have the same pay and benefits for everyone but they will have separate seniority lists. Who can say how it will play out as our paid Reps. are keeping very quiet!

It will anyone and everyone who would want to bid in thru the rest of your careers system wide not just certain stations or cities.  The final decision will affect all future bidding at all locations...

 

[MetalMover]

Correct.  It will affect all groups under the contracts with different cat's. Ex: Leads (CC at AA), inspectors, inspection leads (CC), MC, GSE, PMT's, FMT's, ect...  There is more to this than some are getting when it comes to these 2 different type's of seniority once one is moved into another cat.  One poster has posted that AA will have the numbers to out bid all US guys on any and all issues, "THIS" is exactly why you guys do not need this BS association to go thru, you guys will have to endure this type of voting and game playing for the rest of your careers.  The infighting between the 2 unions will never ever stop, the association will be so engulfed with the infighting between the 2 unions that the membership will not be represented like they should be.  And why would any of the US guys want this association knowing that AA (TWU) members will be able to hold and control the puppet strings of the US (IAM) by just the mere number differences?  I would never vote for that kind of representation and who ever would is an idiot.  This is only 1 example of many, many other differences between the way the 2 unions have their contracts, it is going to be a freakin nightmare working thru all this and will take alot longer than you all think it will.  Think about it people.  The infighting has already started as we all have seen.  When it comes to "trying" to settle into one single contract the infighting is going to greatly increase when it comes to who's language will remain between the 2 different way these 2 unions does certain things.  
If the US guys really knew how bad this association would affect them they would run from it. There is also enough AA'ers that are sick and tired of the TWU and their concessionary agreements over the 30 some odd years.  Vote this BS association down, there should be a run-off election between the TWU and the IAM plain and simple, but, I think this association would have to be voted down to force the run-off.  In the mean time maybe another union can get the cards needed to get on the ballot as well and the membership can then choose who they really want to represent them.  Good luck to you all, it's going to get very hectic for some time before you guys get a SCBA with this association.  You would be much, much better off with a single union representing you, not 2 different unions sharing the membership, how pathetic, let the infighting begin, as it has, and watch your representation go down the toilet.  "NO" to the TWU/IAM association...

The problem with your diatribe is that the vote MIGHT, I say MIGHT have only two choices,,,,,,,,,ASSOCIATION or NO UNION.....How many people do you expect would vote NO UNION?
Until the NMB rules, we just don't know. 
With out doing a scientific poll, I know of NO TWU member personally who wants the association. I do however read posts here where some people want it. 
And as for your comment about "One poster" here who posted that AA has the numbers to outbid US guys on all issues...That poster would be me....If JCBA produces nothing but crap in the eyes of LAA TWU members, you can be damn sure it will get voted down.....

 

[trentrb211]

Correct.  It will affect all groups under the contracts with different cat's. Ex: Leads (CC at AA), inspectors, inspection leads (CC), MC, GSE, PMT's, FMT's, ect...  There is more to this than some are getting when it comes to these 2 different type's of seniority once one is moved into another cat.  One poster has posted that AA will have the numbers to out bid all US guys on any and all issues, "THIS" is exactly why you guys do not need this BS association to go thru, you guys will have to endure this type of voting and game playing for the rest of your careers.  The infighting between the 2 unions will never ever stop, the association will be so engulfed with the infighting between the 2 unions that the membership will not be represented like they should be.  And why would any of the US guys want this association knowing that AA (TWU) members will be able to hold and control the puppet strings of the US (IAM) by just the mere number differences?  I would never vote for that kind of representation and who ever would is an idiot.  This is only 1 example of many, many other differences between the way the 2 unions have their contracts, it is going to be a freakin nightmare working thru all this and will take alot longer than you all think it will.  Think about it people.  The infighting has already started as we all have seen.  When it comes to "trying" to settle into one single contract the infighting is going to greatly increase when it comes to who's language will remain between the 2 different way these 2 unions does certain things.  
If the US guys really knew how bad this association would affect them they would run from it. There is also enough AA'ers that are sick and tired of the TWU and their concessionary agreements over the 30 some odd years.  Vote this BS association down, there should be a run-off election between the TWU and the IAM plain and simple, but, I think this association would have to be voted down to force the run-off.  In the mean time maybe another union can get the cards needed to get on the ballot as well and the membership can then choose who they really want to represent them.  Good luck to you all, it's going to get very hectic for some time before you guys get a SCBA with this association.  You would be much, much better off with a single union representing you, not 2 different unions sharing the membership, how pathetic, let the infighting begin, as it has, and watch your representation go down the toilet.  "NO" to the TWU/IAM association...

 

[Slopoke]

The problem with your diatribe is that the vote MIGHT, I say MIGHT have only two choices,,,,,,,,,ASSOCIATION or NO UNION.....How many people do you expect would vote NO UNION?
Until the NMB rules, we just don't know. 
With out doing a scientific poll, I know of NO TWU member personally who wants the association. I do however read posts here where some people want it. 
And as for your comment about "One poster" here who posted that AA has the numbers to outbid US guys on all issues...That poster would be me....If JCBA produces nothing but crap in the eyes of LAA TWU members, you can be damn sure it will get voted down.....

 
 
Association or no union? For me I think I'd go no union. I posted a question a while back on the Delta forum and asked the question regarding them having no union. The replies in that thread were interesting. I'll have 29 years come July and I'm tired of the anal abuse from the TWU, pile the IAM on top, oh boy! There ain't a ham big enough to rebush my backside if that happens.
 
Sorry for getting off topic.
 
 
http://www.airlineforums.com/topic/57855-question-regarding-unions-for-delta-amts/

 

[trentrb211]

That's funny because we don't get to vote on amything. We are told this is how it will be. We so need to rid ourselves of these 2 unions

 

[swamt]

The problem with your diatribe is that the vote MIGHT, I say MIGHT have only two choices,,,,,,,,,ASSOCIATION or NO UNION.....How many people do you expect would vote NO UNION?
Until the NMB rules, we just don't know. 
With out doing a scientific poll, I know of NO TWU member personally who wants the association. I do however read posts here where some people want it. 
And as for your comment about "One poster" here who posted that AA has the numbers to outbid US guys on all issues...That poster would be me....If JCBA produces nothing but crap in the eyes of LAA TWU members, you can be damn sure it will get voted down.....

The company will easily pit AA against US in order to get a contract moved forward.  In other words, what if the company favored the majority at AA but screwed the members at US?  Well guess what, it will pass.  

 

[swamt]

That's funny because we don't get to vote on amything. We are told this is how it will be. We so need to rid ourselves of these 2 unions

YUPPER!!!  100% correct-a-mendo...

 

[john john]

If he wasnt a Crew Chief for 30 years then he doesnt have 30 years as a CC, he wasnt getting crew chief pay.
 
So if he hasnt worked in the classification as long then of course he would be junior.

At LUS you can bid a lead job step down and stay in a non-lead position for years and then bid lead again and kept all you lead seniority from day one