Awa, Us Air Chiefs Propose

[DCAflyer]

As far as the AFA is concerned, the f/a's WILL be merged date of hire....PERIOD! It is in the bylaws, all which were signed off by the perspective local airline counsels. So...no matter what anyone says, the DOH will be the merging method.

[post="273268"][/post]​

Actually, I don't think that's technically correct. The bylaws are an operating document of the unions. So what is actually going on here is the respective "arms" of AFA, which in this case are UAIR-AFA and AWA-AFA, have agreed to be bound by the bylaws of the parent AFA. The companies agree to honor the terms of the bylaws with respect to intergration according to the policy of the union, and Parker has come out after the merger announcement and said union policies will be upheld.

As far as AFA is concerned, you are correct that DOH will prevail at the end of the day. The AFA bylaws are clear and unambiguous that in situations of merger or acquisition, DOH is the only indicator of seniority, which can be modified only to make sure that both merging groups be given seniority credit for days in initial inflight training.

This can become somewhat messier with the other work groups. While ALPA is on the property at both airlines, it doesn't have DOH integration and their policies are somewhat conveluted, from what I understand. I don't believe the other work groups have same union representation.

 

[DCAflyer]

AGAIN.... I have to ask the DOH question.  If the HP f/a's agreed to DOH in their contract that was last ratified, why do they "all of the sudden" think that it's not ok?  This was negotiated on BOTH sides and is clearly written in the AFA bi-laws.  I guess if the airline merging with HP were hmmm say JetBlue then it would not be an issue due to junior seniority?  It is neither union group that has asked for a merger.  It is the industry that has dictated it is necessary.  Both need each other and cannot remain a stand alone carrier.  To say they don't is just pure denial.  I work for US as an 8 year f/a.  I am not looking to hurt anyone nor put anyone on the street nor do I want to be on the street.  We agreed on DOH and merger protection in our contract.  What's fair is fair.  HP does not want their seniority affected, likewise for US.  Seniority is everything in our profession.  Both being AFA and both having these provisions CLEARLY written beforehand should mean SOMETHING.  If this results in furlough it will some from both carriers.  We at US are not all 30 some year seniority belieeeeve me.  The more senior ones "who I will miss a great deal of"  are leaving so quickly around here that you would think someone was spraying Seniority Spray.  They are dropping off the list that quickly.

[post="273322"][/post]​

You will notice that it's not so much the AWA flight attendants protesting... it is the AA, UAL, and Delta employees protesting. Go figure! If we have a flawless merger and combine into the powerhouse that is predicted by the people investing in this airline, it puts added pressure on the other legacy carriers to poop or get out of the lav.

Delta is teetering on the edge of bankruptcy (and their flight attendants have no union representation, so I shudder to think what might happen to them in C-11).

UAL after three years still hasn't made it out of bankruptcy and has no clear plan, from what I've seen, to make exiting from court protection happen. In addition, the Star Alliance has an insurance policy, or sorts, in place now with the merger of UAIR/AWA, so that if UAL does fold, we will be poised to pick up international feed with our nationwide route network. In addition, we will have cash with which to bid on UAL slots, gates, and Airbuses.

American continues to be under pressure and I can envision the airline entering C-11 as a tool to clense itself of pension obligations and renegotiate work rules with its employees. Time will tell, but the UAIR/AWA merger can only increase the pressure by removing passengers from the AA network with our national route network and the proposed simplified pricing structure.

With grumblings that Jerry Glass may be headed to Northwest next to spread his patented brand of fertilizer, Heaven only knows what will happen to those folks.

So of the six largest carriers, that leaves two poised to come out of the current economic slump... Continental and the new US Airways! The rest, unfortunately, will have to take their rides on the concession train. Is it any wonder they are so threatened by the UAIR/AWA marriage?

 

[aafsc]

You will notice that it's not so much the AWA flight attendants protesting... it is the AA, UAL, and Delta employees protesting. Go figure! If we have a flawless merger and combine into the powerhouse that is predicted by the people investing in this airline, it puts added pressure on the other legacy carriers to poop or get out of the lav.

Delta is teetering on the edge of bankruptcy (and their flight attendants have no union representation, so I shudder to think what might happen to them in C-11).

UAL after three years still hasn't made it out of bankruptcy and has no clear plan, from what I've seen, to make exiting from court protection happen. In addition, the Star Alliance has an insurance policy, or sorts, in place now with the merger of UAIR/AWA, so that if UAL does fold, we will be poised to pick up international feed with our nationwide route network. In addition, we will have cash with which to bid on UAL slots, gates, and Airbuses.

American continues to be under pressure and I can envision the airline entering C-11 as a tool to clense itself of pension obligations and renegotiate work rules with its employees. Time will tell, but the UAIR/AWA merger can only increase the pressure by removing passengers from the AA network with our national route network and the proposed simplified pricing structure.

With grumblings that Jerry Glass may be headed to Northwest next to spread his patented brand of fertilizer, Heaven only knows what will happen to those folks.

So of the six largest carriers, that leaves two poised to come out of the current economic slump... Continental and the new US Airways! The rest, unfortunately, will have to take their rides on the concession train. Is it any wonder they are so threatened by the UAIR/AWA marriage?

[post="273333"][/post]​

You need to take off those rose colored glasses. It will take a lot of effort and MONEY to integrate HP and US. Your "nationwide network" still has a big hole in the center of the country. US still has service problems and HP, while much improved, still has work to do as far as perception of it's service because of it's past reputation. I don't know what will ultimately happen with DL, but with UA, in my opinion, they will finally emerge from BK with costs almost the same as yours and they have an outstanding route network. At AA as far as the pensions, the worst that can happen is that AA will freeze (not terminate) them. AA's pensions are by far the best funded in the industry. In fact, AA is supporting legislation that will allow the pensions to continue (no freezing or termination) while trying to get the government to allow 25 years to pay the underfunding. NW, CO, and DL also want the 25 years but in their version the pensions will have to be frozen. Because of the republicans' wicked desire to kill traditional pension plans and the fact that they control the government, I think that the CO,NW, and DL plan will be passed. AA's route system is superior to the combined HP/US because of it's centrally located hubs and it's international presence (Latin America/Carribean, Europe-LHR, and a few flights to Asia. The patch work financing of this deal does not leave one particularly impressed or "stunned".

 

[Twicebaked]

If you are in the 51st percentile at U when the lists are merged, you should be at the 51st percentile in the merged carrier. If you were in the 51st percentile at HP when the lists are merged, you should be in the 51st percentile in the merged carrier. (Change the "51st percentile" to any number between 1 and 100 and the statements holds true.)

The DOH argument fails for one big reason. There is no reason why HP employees should lose most of their seniority and become junior (in relative terms) to U employees who were working at a compnay that was close to liquidation.

I have said it before and I will say it again. I am not looking to improve my lot in life at the expense of a U employee. However, I should not lose my relative position to a U employee.

[post="272374"][/post]​

With all due respect, read some of your CEO's latest commets regarding the industry. He stated that HP will hit a liquidity crisis by the end of the year if something wasn't done. He also stated that HP couldn't compete with the likes of Southwest without the help of a merger with US. I am not throwing any stones, but you HP people have to stop this "We saved you ### attitude". It is not completely true. We are saving you from a possible similar fate a bit down the line. Again, HP did not and is not acquiring US.

If anyone knows what articles these statements are in, can you please post them for this user.

 

[Light Years]

You need to take off those rose colored glasses. It will take a lot of effort and MONEY to integrate HP and US. Your "nationwide network" still has a big hole in the center of the country. US still has service problems and HP, while much improved, still has work to do as far as perception of it's service because of it's past reputation. I don't know what will ultimately happen with DL, but with UA, in my opinion, they will finally emerge from BK with costs almost the same as yours and they have an outstanding route network. At AA as far as the pensions, the worst that can happen is that AA will freeze (not terminate) them. AA's pensions are by far the best funded in the industry. In fact, AA is supporting legislation that will allow the pensions to continue (no freezing or termination) while trying to get the government to allow 25 years to pay the underfunding. NW, CO, and DL also want the 25 years but in their version the pensions will have to be frozen. Because of the republicans' wicked desire to kill traditional pension plans and the fact that they control the government, I think that the CO,NW, and DL plan will be passed. AA's route system is superior to the combined HP/US because of it's centrally located hubs and it's international presence (Latin America/Carribean, Europe-LHR, and a few flights to Asia. The patch work financing of this deal does not leave one particularly impressed or "stunned".

[post="273342"][/post]​

Wow, you are SO right. We feel like crap now. You and your cohorts are doing so well, leading the industry and making huge profits. Your employees are the most cheerful bunch you could ever encounter. I guess we just shouldn't bother, or at the very least live in fear and misery, putting each other down. You have really uncovered the key to a happy, healthy emotional lifestyle, and we commend and envy you!

 

[the turtle]

The recent message form the US Airways MEC Chair listed the wrong number when he quoted how many active pilots there are at US Airways... 

He left off all of the pilots flying "MidAtlantic" aircraft at U mainline.

That part of mainline has not been sold yet, and even if it is, it would take sometime for it to be transferred over to Republic, during which a large portion of the operation would still be "on the property" flying on the Mainline certificate

Unlike those on furlough, and unlike those employed "off property" at a JFJ position..., those AAA pilots flying the E-170 at Mainline are dues paying, voting, assessment paying, tallyed in each AAA Council's numbers ACTIVE Mainline US Airways pilots...

They have no separate contract, their operation exists only under a letter of agreement on the Mainline CBA. There is no separate company..., It is as much a part of Mainline US Airways as is the "US Airways Shuttle" flying (or Metrojet was in the past).

[post="272392"][/post]​

Sounds to me like Rico thinks he's a Palastinian

 

[aafsc]

Wow, you are SO right. We feel like crap now. You and your cohorts are doing so well, leading the industry and making huge profits. Your employees are the most cheerful bunch you could ever encounter. I guess we just shouldn't bother, or at the very least live in fear and misery, putting each other down. You have really uncovered the key to a happy, healthy emotional lifestyle, and we commend and envy you!

[post="273346"][/post]​

I was responding to DCAflyers post with facts. The facts about how pension reform legislation is in the works. And I compared the routes systems of the various airlines. And you go off thinking this is some sort of attack. DCAflyer seems to feel that this HP/US deal is going to somehow make it an industry powerhouse and put intense pressure on a few of the legacies forcing some out of business. And while AA is no where near out of the woods, it did have an operating profit last year and it has been cashflow positive for quite a while. DCAflyer talks about CO. Maybe they will be a survivor maybe they wont. If I were a CO employee, I would be a little concerned when the CFO says that they would consider selling their stakes in COPA, Expressjet, and Air Mike.

 

[Light Years]

I was responding to DCAflyers post with facts. The facts about how pension reform legislation is in the works. And I compared the routes systems of the various airlines. And you go off thinking this is some sort of attack. DCAflyer seems to feel that this HP/US deal is going to somehow make it an industry powerhouse and put intense pressure on a few of the legacies forcing some out of business. And while AA is no where near out of the woods, it did have an operating profit last year and it has been cashflow positive for quite a while. DCAflyer talks about CO. Maybe they will be a survivor maybe they wont. If I were a CO employee, I would be a little concerned when the CFO says that they would consider selling their stakes in COPA, Expressjet, and Air Mike.

[post="273355"][/post]​

Oh, you're absolutely correct. Not only is HP/US crap, so is CO, and UA, and NW. American Airlines will rule the world, find cures for cancer and AIDS, feed starving children, and leave pretty colored clouds in the sky, for ever and ever.

Everyone else on the board is wrong or misinformed. You, my child, are correct.

 

[aafsc]

Oh, you're absolutely correct. Not only is HP/US crap, so is CO, and UA, and NW. American Airlines will rule the world, find cures for cancer and AIDS, feed starving children, and leave pretty colored clouds in the sky, for ever and ever.

Everyone else on the board is wrong or misinformed. You, my child, are correct.

[post="273357"][/post]​

Show me a post where I called any airline "crap" and where I said AA would rule the world. The FACT is some airlines are in a better financial position than others; but they are all financially sick, including AA. The FACT that some are in BK and some are not; but some of the ones that are not in it are close. The FACT that some airlines have big service problems (Christmas meltdowns and still have the highest bag mishandle rates) and the others have less severe service problems (including AA). And the FACT that combining two entities requires time, effort, and money; AA just got finished doing this.

 

[DCAflyer]

You need to take off those rose colored glasses. It will take a lot of effort and MONEY to integrate HP and US. Your "nationwide network" still has a big hole in the center of the country. US still has service problems and HP, while much improved, still has work to do as far as perception of it's service because of it's past reputation. I don't know what will ultimately happen with DL, but with UA, in my opinion, they will finally emerge from BK with costs almost the same as yours and they have an outstanding route network. At AA as far as the pensions, the worst that can happen is that AA will freeze (not terminate) them. AA's pensions are by far the best funded in the industry. In fact, AA is supporting legislation that will allow the pensions to continue (no freezing or termination) while trying to get the government to allow 25 years to pay the underfunding. NW, CO, and DL also want the 25 years but in their version the pensions will have to be frozen. Because of the republicans' wicked desire to kill traditional pension plans and the fact that they control the government, I think that the CO,NW, and DL plan will be passed. AA's route system is superior to the combined HP/US because of it's centrally located hubs and it's international presence (Latin America/Carribean, Europe-LHR, and a few flights to Asia. The patch work financing of this deal does not leave one particularly impressed or "stunned".

[post="273342"][/post]​

If you really believe that then you, my friend, are the one who needs to remove the proverbial glasses.

 

[Light Years]

Show me a post where I called any airline "crap" and where I said AA would rule the world. The FACT is some airlines are in a better financial position than others; but they are all financially sick, including AA. The FACT that some are in BK and some are not; but some of the ones that are not in it are close. The FACT that some airlines have big service problems (Christmas meltdowns and still have the highest bag mishandle rates) and the others have less severe service problems (including AA). And the FACT that combining two entities requires time, effort, and money; AA just got finished doing this.

[post="273361"][/post]​

You're completely right. You are wise, you are strong, you're 100% correct. Happy trails!

 

[av8orwife]

It is my understanding that when U purchased the Trump Shuttle and merged the pilot group into U, the pilots kept their Eastern date of hire for Travel benefits, but were merged into U keeping their relative position. I think there was a 5-year freeze once they were merged into U. Then they could only be bumped out of a position if they bid off the aircraft.

My best guess is that is what will happen this time around. But as of July 1, there will be one less pilot to intergrate. It's just not worth it. Moving out of aviaition.

 

[LGA Fleet Service]

You're completely right. You are wise, you are strong, you're 100% correct. Happy trails!

[post="273363"][/post]​

Isn't it time for you to have a tantrum about Mesa F/A's?

 

[Light Years]

Isn't it time for you to have a tantrum about Mesa F/A's?

[post="273368"][/post]​

No, you missed one only days ago. Get with the program!

 

[firstamendment]

AGAIN.... I have to ask the DOH question. If the HP f/a's agreed to DOH in their contract that was last ratified, why do they "all of the sudden" think that it's not ok? This was negotiated on BOTH sides and is clearly written in the AFA bi-laws. I guess if the airline merging with HP were hmmm say JetBlue then it would not be an issue due to junior seniority? It is neither union group that has asked for a merger. It is the industry that has dictated it is necessary. Both need each other and cannot remain a stand alone carrier. To say they don't is just pure denial. I work for US as an 8 year f/a. I am not looking to hurt anyone nor put anyone on the street nor do I want to be on the street. We agreed on DOH and merger protection in our contract. What's fair is fair. HP does not want their seniority affected, likewise for US. Seniority is everything in our profession. Both being AFA and both having these provisions CLEARLY written beforehand should mean SOMETHING. If this results in furlough it will some from both carriers. We at US are not all 30 some year seniority belieeeeve me. The more senior ones "who I will miss a great deal of" are leaving so quickly around here that you would think someone was spraying Seniority Spray. They are dropping off the list that quickly.

[post="273322"][/post]​

EXACTLY!! We learned from UAL how easy it is to try to change the rules in the middle of the game. Good God, fence the bases for 5 years. I have moved up 1000 numbers in one year and will move up another 500 by years end. Relax, they are dropping literally by the hundreds. I am more than happy in CLT.


AWA, we have no desire to conguer the world. We LOVE your CEO, who gives us hope. Don't belittle us. Celebrate with us. If you have that little confidence in Doug Parker that he would get rid of you, then he isn't the great CEO you thought he was....and frankly. I do NOT think that is the case.