Crew Rest

[nimbus]

>>>>>>>>Crew manning can also look and see that the vast majority of these trips go senior. Telling them they are popular. Our short layover trips are the most senior at the base in Miami.

 

[FWAAA]

While the actions of Ms. Jones and Ms. Moutardier that day were admirable, let's not get too carried away with the storytelling. The FAs were alerted to Reid's efforts by the smell of burning matches, which would have been obvious even to comatose pax.

Flight attendants don't have to get 7 or 8 hours of sleep to recognize someone trying to set their shoes afire.

Besides, six other male pax actually subdued Reid after Jones was bitten. Should we also ensure that male pax get sufficient sleep prior to boarding? You know, just in case an FA yells for help in subduing a suicidal terrorist?

Anyway, plenty of people do their jobs every day with 5 or 6 hours of sleep. It's not rocket science.

 

[skyangelnflight]

What I am hearing is fatigue, extreme fatigue. . .here is a sample of what people are saying:

I am on reserve, and literally got 20 hours of sleep
in 6 days straight, as crew schedule flew me everyday,
with the longest layover being 8:38 in 6 days. By the last day,
it was all I could do to drive home without falling asleep.
I had to drive with my head hung out the window just to
stay awake long enough to make it home. I then slept
for 16 hours solid, but still felt like crap when I woke up. Now here
comes another 6 days of reserve..God help me.

 

[MiAAmi]

What I am hearing is fatigue, extreme fatigue. . .here is a sample of what people are saying:

I am on reserve, and literally got 20 hours of sleep
in 6 days straight, as crew schedule flew me everyday,
with the longest layover being 8:38 in 6 days. By the last day,
it was all I could do to drive home without falling asleep.
I had to drive with my head hung out the window just to
stay awake long enough to make it home. I then slept
for 16 hours solid, but still felt like crap when I woke up. Now here
comes another 6 days of reserve..God help me.

.here is a sample of what people are saying

Don't believe everything you hear. I'm on reserve this month and have yet to see anything near that. I do have close to 70 hrs already so you can bet the end of the month is looking bleak for crew scheduling.

 

[L1011Ret]

What amazes me is that AA personnel blame AA/AMR for these crew rest rules when in fact the APFA clearly made a choice to take these crew rest rules rather than other concessions which would have made line flying more tolerable rest wise. As some posters have suggested, some of these claims made be overstated. So blame APFA, not AMR.

 

[MiAAmi]

What amazes me is that AA personnel blame AA/AMR for these crew rest rules when in fact the APFA clearly made a choice to take these crew rest rules rather than other concessions which would have made line flying more tolerable rest wise. As some posters have suggested, some of these claims made be overstated. So blame APFA, not AMR.

It is clear that you wish to bash APFA at every turn. If you are truley retired don't you have anything better to do than to smear a union at an airline that you no longer work for ( or ever worked at)?

 

[FWAAA]

It is clear that you wish to bash APFA at every turn. If you are truley retired don't you have anything better to do than to smear a union at an airline that you no longer work for ( or ever worked at)?

Hey, don't shoot the messenger; AA did not unilaterally impose the new crew rest rules on the FAs; the APFA negotiators agreed to these rules. Further, although the FAs might have been able to do something about this issue, the FAs chose instead to eliminate the "underfly" which they deemed so important.

Apparently the FAs thought it more important to be paid for work they didn't do (when the plane arrives earlier than scheduled) than to ensure a longer rest period. That was their call - and they really should live with the beds they make.

I'm not bashing the APFA; merely pointing out reality. It's reality that lots of people don't want to hear, but it is reality nonetheless.

 

[TWAnr]

The last MiAAmi post brings the following to mind:

sacro-sainte

sacred cow
noun (informal)
a person, institution, custom, etc., unreasonably held to be beyond criticism

 

[L1011Ret]

Then let them stand up and be accountable, freely admit this was our choice and we have to live with it rather than trying to get the Congress to undo what they wanted and freely accepted. It is quite clear that AFPA cannot stand up to or be accountable for their own actions and if a union cannot hold itself accountable and responsible then it has no business calling itself a union.

 

[MiAAmi]

APFA did agree to the 8hr rule. With the threat of BK the union reluctantly agreed to alot of things. But when it comes to safety and the FAA I don't think that AA wants to push the envelope with this because its an item that may become mandatory. We all recieved a letter from our base manager about how only 10% of the bid sheet for SEP has layovers less than 10 hours. APFA is playing their cards right with this one. AA knows that if congress gets involved they may have to settle for a FAA minimum change and they will never be able to negotiate anything less. Its all about leverage and this time its on APFA's side.
[/QUOTE]
Then let them stand up and be accountable, freely admit this was our choice and we have to live with it rather than trying to get the Congress to undo what they wanted and freely accepted.

APFA did not want or freely accept anything. We had a contract that AA said needed trimmed or would cause the company to seek BK. Everyone at this company RELUCTANTLY gave back to the company with the threat of BK and even bigger cuts.

 

[MiAAmi]

The last MiAAmi post brings the following to mind:

sacro-sainte

sacred cow
noun (informal)
a person, institution, custom, etc., unreasonably held to be beyond criticism

I think you can add to the definition of sacred cow: Any opinions or views from former TWA employees and/or their spouses.

 

[L1011Ret]

Please get your facts straight. I sat in court and listened to J. Ward and the AA Director of Labor Relations review this whole matter. There were many, many choices on AA's menu of possible concessions for APFA to agree to. The only issue not negotiable was the total dollar amount. I listened while a review of many of these concessions was made. Both the Director of Labor Relations and J. Ward agreed that they had arrived at the choices to be made in open bargaining. APFA was under no compulsion to accept the rest rules. They had plenty of other "sacred cows" that could have been used to meet monetary targets. There was even discussion how furloughs could have been totally avoided and some agreement that a 19% cut would avoid most furloughs. The exact data can be found in the transcription.
So why doesn't APFA show some character and go to AA and say, "we made a mistake. We cannot live with what we negotiated. We would like to trade some other items to mitigate the effects of the rest rules?" They cannot because they are just not honest and humble enough to admit their mistake and find a way to correct it. They act like victims, "AA made us do it." And they blame AA for their own inadequacies.
b

 

[AC AA LA FA]

As stated above I feel that APFA is handeling this issue right on. The fear of intervention by congress and a fact filled PR blitz by ALL f/a unions exposing the public to the hazards of tired crews and AAs position on such issue, grants us more leveredge than any collective agreement would. The spirit of the crew rest minimum and the letter of minimum rest-2 different issues. Yes APFA gave the company the flexability to sched. 8hrs rest never thinking that LHR and deep S. America trips ect would be crewed by zombies w/ 6hrs. sleep..The company could not be more in the wrong..and dont think that their position will change because it is the right thing to do...they can see the writing on the wall..and now its all damage controll..
nice way of looking at the value of human life and saftey hua???

 

[AC AA LA FA]

...also..food for thought for those f/as who like their short layovers...
a chin is only as strong as its weakest link...just because you may feel awake and alert on 6hrs sleep-dosent mean that the other 2,3,5,9 ect..members do as well...
we may all have a personal preference to this-but in todays day and age crew cohesiveness and communication is a MUST and operating together effectivly will ensure everyone on board is safe and comfortable..JMO

 

[skyangelnflight]

APFA President John Ward, along with other APFA Representatives, met with
members of management on Tuesday August 19th. The company
has addressed our concerns on specific scheduled international
layovers, conditions, which can and do interfere with a Flight
Attendant's ability to effectively perform FAA mandated security and
safety duties.

. . .remain on many domestic and some international
layovers and have yet to be addressed to our satisfaction. APFA
Representatives will meet again next week with members of management
to discuss the issues related to reduce rest in hopes of reaching a
resolution. APFA President John Ward will be flying a domestic trip
out of DFW the week of August 25th, which contains reduced rest in
order to experience firsthand what our membership is going through.