----------------
On 8/31/2002 2:30:05 PM
Dave showed his true colors to me during his second visit to TPA. Perhaps it was utter frustration and exhaustion when he used a few words that were not becoming of a CEO. Perhaps it was his way of trying to speak our "language", but it was disenchanting to hear from our Chief Executive Officer.
[]
You mean you did not like it when he said the "bulls**t" words a few times. maybe if he had use a couple of big words you would have complained that he is a show off and need to come down to the workers level..[
and a matter with Unions...when is it the time when the union members approaches the UNION and tell them stop the fighting and take the deal.
I thought the Union should work for the members and do what they wish...my suggestion is that you do not let this linger anymore than it needs to.....
Oh yeh blame the union not yourself
Dave is showing his colors isn''t he? a question to ponder
- Thread starter Res
- Start date
Sabre--
Duh! Where have you been the last few months? Each labor group was told that if they didn't come to a voluntary agreement regarding concessions, that the company would ask the bankruptcy judge for AT LEAST as much as they originally wanted from each of us. How can you say with a straight face that Dave has now shown his "true colors?" He's doing exactly what he said he would do.
Duh! Where have you been the last few months? Each labor group was told that if they didn't come to a voluntary agreement regarding concessions, that the company would ask the bankruptcy judge for AT LEAST as much as they originally wanted from each of us. How can you say with a straight face that Dave has now shown his "true colors?" He's doing exactly what he said he would do.
I said this on another thread, but I think that I will say it hear again....
So far I am willing to wait until Sept 10 for word from CWA and the company, but was thinking that 12 proposals and 12 rejections from CWA in the 3 months what has the company offered inn that same 3 months... seems to me that CWA is making all the offers and the company is sitting back on its ass just rejecting until Sept 10.. so really did they ever want an agreement at all? if the judge in a BK is to deceide who has been negiotiating and who has not, would it not be concieveable to believe that CWA can win this argument?.. if the judge has to deceide to abbrogate our contract, what kind of prove does the company has to show, other than "Sir we have rejected the 12 proposal presented by CWA because "they were not good enough"..
Seemes to me that the judge should and will say, USAIRWAYS "that is not good enough"..
on a personal note.. I think that at this point I would be willing to take my chances with the judge and maybe just maybe that he will finally put the management on the spot and say "Get it done or you (management) won't like the outcome that I will render...
So if Dave (as he prefers to be called) really wanted voluntary concessions you cannot honestly tell me that after 12 proposals that he really wants it to be a voluntary concessations... No he wants it his way or no way... and so many other posters have said that he did not create this mess and i would agree but he inherited from Dumb and Dumber, they ssigned the contract and now he must live with it. Im am willing to help the company as I have done so on many many other occiasions in my 18 year history , but please after 12 proposals and still the responce is "not good enough" what more can we do except roll over and die?..(which will not happen)...
So far I am willing to wait until Sept 10 for word from CWA and the company, but was thinking that 12 proposals and 12 rejections from CWA in the 3 months what has the company offered inn that same 3 months... seems to me that CWA is making all the offers and the company is sitting back on its ass just rejecting until Sept 10.. so really did they ever want an agreement at all? if the judge in a BK is to deceide who has been negiotiating and who has not, would it not be concieveable to believe that CWA can win this argument?.. if the judge has to deceide to abbrogate our contract, what kind of prove does the company has to show, other than "Sir we have rejected the 12 proposal presented by CWA because "they were not good enough"..
Seemes to me that the judge should and will say, USAIRWAYS "that is not good enough"..
on a personal note.. I think that at this point I would be willing to take my chances with the judge and maybe just maybe that he will finally put the management on the spot and say "Get it done or you (management) won't like the outcome that I will render...
So if Dave (as he prefers to be called) really wanted voluntary concessions you cannot honestly tell me that after 12 proposals that he really wants it to be a voluntary concessations... No he wants it his way or no way... and so many other posters have said that he did not create this mess and i would agree but he inherited from Dumb and Dumber, they ssigned the contract and now he must live with it. Im am willing to help the company as I have done so on many many other occiasions in my 18 year history , but please after 12 proposals and still the responce is "not good enough" what more can we do except roll over and die?..(which will not happen)...
----------------
On 8/31/2002 2:30:05 PM
Dave showed his true colors to me during his second visit to TPA. Perhaps it was utter frustration and exhaustion when he used a few words that were not becoming of a CEO. Perhaps it was his way of trying to speak our "language", but it was disenchanting to hear from our Chief Executive Officer.
[
----------------
Please tell me with 100 pct factual backup what exactly he said, and was it a zero tolerance expression?If so, is he exempt from not being able to use such language?
Already doing that to some degree(not relevant to new sales and info calls)..e.g.not fixing pnr or ticketing mistakes that arent of my doing,not coordinating seat assignments that are preassigned not together previously between different pnrs of families trvling together(I didnt break it so I dont fix it),not sorting through 30 fares on a reissue requalifying certain fares from offpeak to peak,peak to offpeak, or 3 days to no advance upgrades to fares,no one else is doing it, why should I? 100 bucks even or even exchange is my motto.In these examples and others not directly sales related,the company is getting in return what they serve me daily. SQWAT!
I personally will vote NO unless I see something along the lines of the following..1-No more than 10pct hourly cut in salary,no retro cut to JULY1..2-No more than 1 week reduced in vac accrual or accept the 75pct paid figure with no # of weeks reduced,3-No more than 4 sick days per year removed from annual accrual, and most importantly, NO PENALTY for using them, if this non pnlty clause isn't in there I vote NO for the entire contract no matter what the rest of it says,4- Max 2 holidays removed from 10,with fullweek off bid option maintained(1 day out of each of 2 weeks unpaid vto),5-health care contributions equal to that of other groups,6-Fair adjustment to pensions policy along lines of other groups.
Apparently the company has not come even close to something as fair and equitable as this.Tells me good faith bargaining on Peagulls part is a buncha bunk thus far,regardless of what the other groups have accepted.Those groups, sorry to say, are not of my concern. When you have a department and a management that supports writing someone up(thankfully not me) for being 60 seconds late signing into their phone pad, yes, 60 seconds, out of 14,400 in a 24 hr day, they can G.T.H.(translate as you wish)
It's my way... [or the highway<-->"mgmt that is."]
Apparently the company has not come even close to something as fair and equitable as this.Tells me good faith bargaining on Peagulls part is a buncha bunk thus far,regardless of what the other groups have accepted.Those groups, sorry to say, are not of my concern. When you have a department and a management that supports writing someone up(thankfully not me) for being 60 seconds late signing into their phone pad, yes, 60 seconds, out of 14,400 in a 24 hr day, they can G.T.H.(translate as you wish)
It's my way... [or the highway<-->"mgmt that is."]
N513AU
Advanced
- Aug 20, 2002
- 219
- 0
If Dave violates our contract or has it dismissed, we will sit on our butts and be incredibly unproductive. Pay us what we're worth, Dave. If he opens that door of busting unions, he will probably have signed US Airways death warrant. At that point, you will have a load of pissed employees hellbent on revenge. Let the games begin.
Whoa,
Under no condition am I willing to do something that will inconvenience a customer, or endanger life or limb.
No matter how angry I am with the Company, or Union Leadership, will I be angry with the people paying my salary.
For the first time in a long time, we are doing what is right. Yes, it is scary. The "safe" thing to do is to quietly follow. Remember what Vince Lombari said "if you keep doing what you did, you'll keep getting what you've got".
Stand or Sit. NOW is the time.
But not with the Customers!
Under no condition am I willing to do something that will inconvenience a customer, or endanger life or limb.
No matter how angry I am with the Company, or Union Leadership, will I be angry with the people paying my salary.
For the first time in a long time, we are doing what is right. Yes, it is scary. The "safe" thing to do is to quietly follow. Remember what Vince Lombari said "if you keep doing what you did, you'll keep getting what you've got".
Stand or Sit. NOW is the time.
But not with the Customers!
I could not agree more... My frustrations with the company and its mangement are no fault of the passengers, and therefor I will not let those frustrations be taken out on them..
A320 Driver
Veteran
The whole makeup of the airline industry has changed forever. Every employee is probably worth more than the company will pay after all these contract modifications are finished. I never heard Dave or W & G or any other Chief executive say that the U employees are not worth what they are paid. It just comes down to math. They pay what they can and still survive as a corporation. I'm sure Dave could care less how IAM and CWA reach the bogey numbers as long as the union and the company financial people can agree on the validity of them. The only time an employee is not worth what they're paid is when they don't do their job. Get as mad as you like RealityCheck ... if you're letting those mistakes slide, and ultimately hurting our customers, then sadly, your not worth what they pay you.
A320 Driver
A320 Driver
hmm(scratching scalp)..Charging only 100 instead of the correct 300 or more? An Even exchg instead of the actual due 100 add collect on a bizness fare? I may be thick sometimes, but how does that hurt the customer???????????????? Your response is a prime example of how outside chastising groups do not know the mechanics of res, service, and sales and cannot speak lucidly about the job anymore than I would ever dare speak about theirs.
As for the seats example, I am not alloted the time to fix those mistakes that I did not make. No one else fixes it, they pass the buck, and they could be paid the same as I. End of story.The bare minimum daily requirement from me until/when/if the Hitlerism stops.
The issue is not what we think we are worth, it's the ability to pay and the ability to emerge.
Again, Dave is not the hammer. The concessions for each work group are required to get DIP financing, emergence financing, and a loan guarantee.
The rules to obtain cash to restructure were established by TPG, CSFB, & BOA. The judge will see that the only offers on the table on September 10 for the airline to operate with DIP financing require the IAM-M & CWA to reach the target numbers of a $154 million IAM-M & $70 million per year.
The court cannot mandate what an investor is willing to pay; the court through the creditors committee can only solicit bids.
Therefore, the court will view the S.1113 hearing primarily by looking out for the creditor. As such, if the court permits a contract change that does not reach the target numbers, the court will violate the terms of the DIP financing and place the company's future in doubt. Thus, the creditors would be placed in jeopardy unless the company is ordered to liquidate.
Considering most analysts, observers, and the news media believe US Airways restructuring is a "template" to reorganize, I doubt the court will permit the DIP and emergence financing contracts to be voided by authorizing labor contracts that do not meet the TPG, CSFB, & BOA requirements.
I believe without voluntary restructuring accords, the only question is not will the cuts occur, but will the court order deeper cuts and agree with the company's motion to fine the unions, which are made up of its members.
In addition, union members will not be permitted to vote on a court-imposed vote. It's take it or leave it because with no deal that meets the DIP financing, there is no company.
Chip
Again, Dave is not the hammer. The concessions for each work group are required to get DIP financing, emergence financing, and a loan guarantee.
The rules to obtain cash to restructure were established by TPG, CSFB, & BOA. The judge will see that the only offers on the table on September 10 for the airline to operate with DIP financing require the IAM-M & CWA to reach the target numbers of a $154 million IAM-M & $70 million per year.
The court cannot mandate what an investor is willing to pay; the court through the creditors committee can only solicit bids.
Therefore, the court will view the S.1113 hearing primarily by looking out for the creditor. As such, if the court permits a contract change that does not reach the target numbers, the court will violate the terms of the DIP financing and place the company's future in doubt. Thus, the creditors would be placed in jeopardy unless the company is ordered to liquidate.
Considering most analysts, observers, and the news media believe US Airways restructuring is a "template" to reorganize, I doubt the court will permit the DIP and emergence financing contracts to be voided by authorizing labor contracts that do not meet the TPG, CSFB, & BOA requirements.
I believe without voluntary restructuring accords, the only question is not will the cuts occur, but will the court order deeper cuts and agree with the company's motion to fine the unions, which are made up of its members.
In addition, union members will not be permitted to vote on a court-imposed vote. It's take it or leave it because with no deal that meets the DIP financing, there is no company.
Chip
Reality Check,
May I suggest you either get one or change your username. Doing the bare minimum, regardless if you can aid a passenger or not does not help. Open your paycheck, and read the quote abaove your name. "BROUGHT TO YOU BY THE CUSTOMERS WHO MAKE US AIRWAYS THEIR CARRIER OF CHOICE." If you notice there is a mistake, and do not act to correct it, you are part of the problem, not the solution. As AOG-N-IT can attest, our department constantly fixes mistakes, especially on our shift. Many who make those mistakes are paid much more than us, and I am sure a few of them got some of that $6 million bonus. Do we just let it slide? No, we fix it, because if we don't, the customer is the end one to feel the brunt of the effect. That equates to lost revenue now and in the future, coupled with the expense of eventually having to fix the error anyway. Making the company less efficient is the slowest way to returning the company to a stable financial platform, and most importantly, recalling our furloughed fellow employees.
Get a life.
May I suggest you either get one or change your username. Doing the bare minimum, regardless if you can aid a passenger or not does not help. Open your paycheck, and read the quote abaove your name. "BROUGHT TO YOU BY THE CUSTOMERS WHO MAKE US AIRWAYS THEIR CARRIER OF CHOICE." If you notice there is a mistake, and do not act to correct it, you are part of the problem, not the solution. As AOG-N-IT can attest, our department constantly fixes mistakes, especially on our shift. Many who make those mistakes are paid much more than us, and I am sure a few of them got some of that $6 million bonus. Do we just let it slide? No, we fix it, because if we don't, the customer is the end one to feel the brunt of the effect. That equates to lost revenue now and in the future, coupled with the expense of eventually having to fix the error anyway. Making the company less efficient is the slowest way to returning the company to a stable financial platform, and most importantly, recalling our furloughed fellow employees.
Get a life.
You need to take your head out of your lower intestine and realize I speak nothing new here, I just have the cajoles to speak it..People in rez offices get away with errors and bare mimimum all the time and are praised and rewarded for it..not only do I see it onscreen, I talk to it also. DAILY! I am just joining in the pack. Thats a reality check. And in case you didnt notice, I'm doing the customer a monetary favor by just chrging 100 or no add collect like others do and the etkts I work on get reissued properly before passgr gets to the ato, ......you got a problem with that?
Same old mantra this post of yours Chip, trouble is you don't count, I don't count, we don't count, it is completely out of our hands now, take a deep breath, and say a prayer.
Similar threads
