Dear Captain Prater

[aquagreen73s]

" PHL is unfixable. Doug and SWA both know it and it will go down as an asset only sale."
Yep, it is unfixable. Proven fact. But do no forget where all the profits came from. PHL sucks, but generates a huge amount of cash...you know..same cash that funded your profit sharing.

As to pilots being layed off...I don't pretend to have a clue. We all know the next downturn is around the corner. Fact is on the East side there is currently a SHORTAGE of pilots, and our large attrition rate does not help matters.

Greeter.

So do you Easties want to burn the house down or not? If there actually is an attmept to do so, then Doug won't hesitate to dump the valuable stuff and pink-slip the problem at the source. He's not going to stand idle while hooligans destroy shareholder value. It doesn't take a lot of smarts to figure out that the desperation strategy of the radical East is doomed to fail. Too bad for the sensible ones.

 

[luvn737s]

I don't think you West guys understand the plight of the F/Os in the East. We have been crapped on for 20 years; by this company and the top 1/3rd of the pilot list. Now the bottom 3rd is being crapped on again, this time by Nic, being placed junior to pilots who were not even hired at AWA when we were flying Captain here.

Now, most of us are old and nearing time to go. Do you honestly think that we care if we work under B scale wages (Yes we were here when there was a B scale, not in grade school) AGAIN, if it prevents us from being on the recieving end of a crap sandwich again? We have reached the tipping point. We have gone along with ALPA since 1992, giving concession after concession, to keep this company afloat. Now the assets that we gave our blood sweat and tears for are in peril. In peril of being pulled from our grasp. It is not going to happen. If you go to section six, why would we not come over and fly your planes, we see you are willing to come and jump in our seats? Do we care if we are called scabs? No, we only have a few years left anyway and don't forget, ALPA has been so good to us for 20 years.

Does anything in this bizarre post make sense? The senior pilots are looking at 5 additional years at the top of scale and the real possibility exists that that top may be expanded by 20% or more. But (and this is the unbelieveable part) you would rather sit and stew over the outcome of a legal binding arbitration, than stand up and go after a better contract?

The young people can leave and establish themselves in careers with other carriers, but a 59-year-old has little chance of falling into another job that pays well into 6 figures.

Why do the east pilots allow their pursuit of spite and their disdain for legal agreeemnts stand between them and a much brighter financial future??

Does anyone understand this ?????

 

[exB717Flyer]

I don't think you West guys understand the plight of the F/Os in the East. We have been crapped on for 20 years; by this company and the top 1/3rd of the pilot list.

I think every major airline pilot understands your plight: through no fault of your own your career has suffered and the AWA merger presented the possibility for restitution. The problem is there's no way you can get that restitution except from the AWA pilots. We're both drinking from the same well now and it's not very deep. It's sad that many displaced captains will never regain their seats and furloughed fo's will never upgrade but that's the result of two bankruptcies. Nicolau's award didn't create that loss; it simply upheld that loss. Similarly the AWA pilots didn't gain anything; we just failed to lose anything.

 

[TheLarkAscending]

ALPA EC will decide if the merger policy was followed. If it was, the award is binding. If it wasn't it is not binding.......et al

This is the absolutely the first post I've read that speaks to the issues without uber-emotion and monumental chest-pounding, along with smack-down threats. Thank you, pilot!

 

[aquagreen73s]

This is the absolutely the first post I've read that speaks to the issues without uber-emotion and monumental chest-pounding, along with smack-down threats. Thank you, pilot!

There is nothing in the ALPA bylaws which permits a post judgment reversal of the award by the EC. The EC is welcome to discuss in open or closed session whether the merger policy was followed and whether the process should be restructured for future integrations. But that is completely separate from what pilot and his like are hoping for: that the EC decides to commit legal suicide and discontinues their duty to support and defend the arbitration.

 

[TheLarkAscending]

There is nothing ...

Be that as it may, I have no stake in this situation. It was refreshing to read a post without exhaustive threats and innuendo with puffed chests. I'm not fond of p*ss*ng contests, they serve no purpose and the winds usually blow toward the contestants, eventually.


It is an unfortunate fractured beginning for everyone involved. No one will forget it or the aftereffects, regardless of their geographic placement.

 

[aquagreen73s]

It is an unfortunate fractured beginning for everyone involved. No one will forget it or the aftereffects, regardless of their geographic placement.

I agree that this is shaping up to being a permanent fracture. Doug knows it, the West knows it, and the East wants it that way. The only alternatives is to either dilute the discontent through another merger or just slice the discontent out like the bad part of the apple.

 

[autofixer]

I agree that this is shaping up to being a permanent fracture. Doug knows it, the West knows it, and the East wants it that way. The only alternatives is to either dilute the discontent through another merger or just slice the discontent out like the bad part of the apple.

It is the same stuff different day. Screw Doug, he'll be gone tomorrow. These modern day CEOs are all the same. They are simply corportate raiders of old.

Be assured there will be another merger, after all, we would be dealing with DAL right now if they were not able to prevent this cancer from entering their body, at least for the time being. I think that this is the reason the EC is looking for a way out of this debacle. They know ALPA merger policy is coming to an airline near them soon. That being said, don't be so sure a merger will dilute the problem, it may supercharge it, depending on who the dance partner is.

 

[767jetz]

It's sad that many displaced captains will never regain their seats and furloughed fo's will never upgrade but that's the result of two bankruptcies. Nicolau's award didn't create that loss; it simply upheld that loss. Similarly the AWA pilots didn't gain anything; we just failed to lose anything.

This is exactly correct and sums it up very well.

 

[brokenwrench]

- West pilots entering Section VI negotiations, which could last for years and then ultimately ending up in a strike with 60% of the combined pilots bound by their contract and would fly through the West strike.

Regards,

USA320Pilot

Sir,
Please state for the record that you are indeed not a SCAB and would not cross a LEGAL PICKET LINE!

 

[Walmartgreeter]

You cannot be a SCAB without crossing a line. Period. Unlike AWA, there are no scabs on the East side. They were all identified during their probation year by ALPA, and then let go by the company.



Greeter.

 

[brokenwrench]

You cannot be a SCAB without crossing a line. Period. Unlike AWA, there are no scabs on the East side. They were all identified during their probation year by ALPA, and then let go by the company.



Greeter.

I understand that fact and do not disagree. However he seems to be saying that he would cross a west picket line to perform struck work. Did I read his intent wrong?

 

[aquagreen73s]

You cannot be a SCAB without crossing a line. Period. Unlike AWA, there are no scabs on the East side. They were all identified during their probation year by ALPA, and then let go by the company.



Greeter.

Interesting choice of words. You speak in fact rather than in the hypothetical - as if you have first hand knowledge that that practice actually occurred. You do know that if what you say is true, then ALPA is liable an unfair labor practice subject to civil penalties and is likely in violation of federal law, don't you?

 

[Walmartgreeter]

He was probably saying the same thing I said...if ones seniority is taken, the bond between brother pilots is broken. It will be every man for himself, and his family.

I sense the West does not understand how deep this goes.

But again, it does not matter what one says....if there is a work action and somebody crosses, they (I) would be a SCAB. The question I ask is that without seniority...what would it mean in the world of a Jungle rules industry?


Greeter.

"You speak in fact rather than in the hypothetical - as if you have first hand knowledge......"


Read my words and punctuation. I told you what happened, in the order it happened. Nothing else. Probation here years ago was a tricky time....EVERYBODY walked a straight line until the year was over.

So get off your high horse...as if you were going to be able to go back 20 years and figure it all out anyway.

Greeter.

 

[USA320Pilot]

If the AWA pilots break the terms of the Transition Agreement and attempt to enter Section VI negotiations, without objection from the company, the US Airways pilots would still be bound by the terms of the Transition Agreement. Specifically, the US Airways pilots would need to comply with the Transition Agreement during an AWA strike and could not violate the law.

The Transition Agreement states, "The pilot workforces of America West and US Airways will remain separate and covered by their respective collective bargaining agreements (the “Separate Operationsâ€￾) until Operational Pilot Integration as provided in Section VI."

Thus, the US Airways pilots would be legally required to work under thier contract and could not strike. That is not being a SCAB that is working per the agreement and law.

Regards,

USA320Pilot