Dec 2012 / Jan 2013 US Pilots Labor Discussion

[EastUS1]

....legally, morally, ethically and logically there is only one way to start off this party, and that is the Nicolau.

Thanks for the Joke of the Day, but..."legally, morally, ethically",etc?...Seriously? 😉...Aww...just stop it! You're killin' me here 🙂

cactusboy53: "I really don't want to predict what is going to happen,..." and that, after "the Nic, who knows?" Whew! I'd suggest some real caution here....lest your little cult members out there seek to sacrifice you to some saguaro during the next peyote and video making ritual! 🙂

 

[luvthe9]

You see Luvr, there you go again either lying or putting words in other people's mouth. To be honest, I expect nothing more from you.

I know that the Nicolau is the ONLY LEGAL, FINAL and BINDING seniority list. I know that DOH, DOH-lite, DOH-uber-lite or any other version immediately puts all other parties on "dangerous ground" and in "peril".

I really don't want to predict what is going to happen, but.....legally, morally, ethically and logically there is only one way to start off this party, and that is the Nicolau. So simple that everyone else gets it. You have won delay, and it has cost us all dearly. USAPA = the Pariah of the Commercial Aviation Industry.

Hey, you said it Davie boy not me,come off of your high horse, explain to your membership why the NIC will not be used for anything. It's OK. Funny no commemt on separate ops in the event we do merge.

 

[cactusboy53]

I've endured DOH mergers, been through slotted mergers, and seen worse up close. I doubt anyone in the east really thinks a DOH list with C&R will be the result of a McCaskill-Bond arbitration. IMHO, it will be slotted in some form.

My hope (our hope?) is that the arbitrators actually take the time to understand ALL the factors involved, and offer at least some semblance of balance in the outcome.

So, you want the three arbitrators to look at three lists. These same three arbitrators work for the same organization as Arbitrator Nicolau, right? It would be reasonable to presume that since Arbitrator is older, he may perhaps be their acquaintance, perhaps mentor, perhaps even friend.

Since the arbitrators are a relatively small group of people, it would be fair to assume that they would be intimately familiar with Arbitrator Nicolau's logic, award and decision. Do you really think is a smart thing to wish for this after all of the publicly snotty, degrading, harmful things your group has said about Arbitrator Nicolau? Let's see how that works out for you, Skippy.

 

[cactusboy53]

Hey, you said it Davie boy not me,come off of your high horse, explain to your membership why the NIC will not be used for anything. It's OK. Funny no commemt on separate ops in the event we do merge.

Wow. You kids are really whipped up into a froth. I have no comments for you at this time. Continue to read the news stories, NMB responses, court responses, and update and cherry pick your DOH nuggets. You clearly have won, and DOH is just around the corner. Keep clickin' them heels Dorothy! You're almost in DOH-land. See you in the funny papers...

 

[EastUS1]

It would be reasonable to presume that since Arbitrator is older, he may perhaps be their acquaintance, perhaps mentor, perhaps even friend.

Indeed. There can be no doubt that since he "is older", he receives the utmost respect from others, why, gee!....just look at how well that notion works with yourself and all your little puppies out west, whenever dealing with those older out east. 😉

I'm now well convinced that "west' and "logic" are mutually exclusive terms.

 

[767jetz]

AMR and Pilots Face Obstacles in Merger Talks


http://www.forbes.com/sites/tedreed/2012/12/28/amr-and-pilots-face-obstacles-in-merger-talks/?partner=yahootix


"Meanwhile, a small group of pilots has publicly raised objections to a merger, largely by suggesting that American pilots would lose seniority in a post-merger integration with US Airways."

"Bob Crandall said pilots need to protect their seniority by negotiating a seniority integration agreement before a merger occurs."

"A small group of pilots, with assistance from AMR management and a former CEO, has been advancing that notion that an integrated list should be a precondition to any further consideration of a merger."

"Wilson also said the continuing seniority dispute following the 2005 merger between US Airways and America West “would be settled as part of the process."

"Chris Manno, a Dallas-based 737 captain with 27 years at the airline, is co-organizer of a pilot group opposed to the merger. He estimated that 20% to 30% of pilots share his concerns."

 

[luvthe9]

Wow I have no comments for you at this time.

Wow, didn't think so, up to two years is a lot of movement on the east side with separate ops.

 

[Claxon]

You see Luvr, there you go again either lying or putting words in other people's mouth. To be honest, I expect nothing more from you.

I know that the Nicolau is the ONLY LEGAL, FINAL and BINDING seniority list. I know that DOH, DOH-lite, DOH-uber-lite or any other version immediately puts all other parties on "dangerous ground" and in "peril".

I really don't want to predict what is going to happen, but.....legally, morally, ethically and logically there is only one way to start off this party, and that is the Nicolau. So simple that everyone else gets it. You have won delay, and it has cost us all dearly. USAPA = the Pariah of the Commercial Aviation Industry.

And this guy is your rep in PHX. Unbelievable. In the face of all the court rulings, this fanatic still stares at the sun and repeats the garbage you AWA guys lap up like dogs. Next time you have a meeting, ask him why he still does not have a Nic list, 7 yrs later. And If it is so final and legal and binding, ask him why it sure acts like none of those adjectives.

 

[luvthe9]

AMR and Pilots Face Obstacles in Merger Talks


http://www.forbes.co...artner=yahootix


"Meanwhile, a small group of pilots has publicly raised objections to a merger, largely by suggesting that American pilots would lose seniority in a post-merger integration with US Airways."

"Bob Crandall said pilots need to protect their seniority by negotiating a seniority integration agreement before a merger occurs."

"A small group of pilots, with assistance from AMR management and a former CEO, has been advancing that notion that an integrated list should be a precondition to any further consideration of a merger."

"Wilson also said the continuing seniority dispute following the 2005 merger between US Airways and America West “would be settled as part of the process."

"Chris Manno, a Dallas-based 737 captain with 27 years at the airline, is co-organizer of a pilot group opposed to the merger. He estimated that 20% to 30% of pilots share his concerns."

Geez, Mikeys back after such a long hiatus. Thanks for your input.

 

[luvthe9]

And this guy is your rep in PHX. Unbelievable. In the face of all the court rulings, this fanatic still stares at the sun and repeats the garbage you AWA guys lap up like dogs.

Pick up this book DS.......

 

[Claxon]

AMR and Pilots Face Obstacles in Merger Talks


http://www.forbes.co...artner=yahootix


"Meanwhile, a small group of pilots has publicly raised objections to a merger, largely by suggesting that American pilots would lose seniority in a post-merger integration with US Airways."

"Bob Crandall said pilots need to protect their seniority by negotiating a seniority integration agreement before a merger occurs."

"A small group of pilots, with assistance from AMR management and a former CEO, has been advancing that notion that an integrated list should be a precondition to any further consideration of a merger."

"Wilson also said the continuing seniority dispute following the 2005 merger between US Airways and America West “would be settled as part of the process."

"Chris Manno, a Dallas-based 737 captain with 27 years at the airline, is co-organizer of a pilot group opposed to the merger. He estimated that 20% to 30% of pilots share his concerns."

Key word, ESTIMATED. Funny how the AWA ALPA boys ESTIMATED the eastern group would turn down USAPA.

 

[EastUS1]

Wow. You kids are really whipped up into a froth. I have no comments for you at this time. Continue to read the news stories, NMB responses, court responses, and update and cherry pick your DOH nuggets. You clearly have won, and DOH is just around the corner. Keep clickin' them heels Dorothy! You're almost in DOH-land. See you in the funny papers...

Hmm...a noted lack of any "The nic is it!" therein, saguaro-san. Speaking of the "funny papers" though, and "You kids are really whipped up into a froth."...Whatever happened to: "Final and binding!"..."It's OVER...Get used to it!"...."You won't even get 200 cards!"..."NO fences!"..."Ho Ho Ho!..Saint Nic is coming to town!"...and, who could ever forget "Booyooshaka!"? 🙂 Heck!...It's even been a goodly while since we've heard: "It's the nic or you can live on LOA93 forever!" 😉

Some suggested reading for the APA folks: http://answers.yahoo...01145824AAxEemS http://www.querycat....37a9a89d4910dde

cactusboy53 "I have no comments for you at this time." That....I can easilly understand. 😉

 

[traderjake]

Funny no commemt on separate ops in the event we do merge.

Funny no comment on

"We have seen a model for a successfully arbitrated seniority integration at Delta-Northwest using fences and a ratio methodology based on a percentile seniority list ranking."

 

[A320 Driver]

Nicolau did that. Just because you don't like the result does not mean he did not take the time to consider all of the factors.

Nicolau did balance the outcome. Ask Roland Wilder what he balanced.

Bologna. It is a windfall or you wouldn't want it so bad. You know darn well that anyone working from Wall Street to Walmart would raise hell if you put a newhire in front of them if they had 15 years seniority. If the fairness of the NIC ever sees the light of day in a courtroom, you and your argument will be toast. The only reason the jury sided with you in Addington was because the judge kept it hidden from them.

The best idea posted is the one you responded to. Put it all under MB using the current paradigm and let the chips fall.

Driver...

 

[A320 Driver]

My hope is that someday you'll understand all the factors involved and realize it was a balanced outcome.

I hope someday you'll understand how much you are loathed by those you work with. You just want the money and you couldn't care less who gets thrown under the bus.

Driver...