Dec 2012 / Jan 2013 US Pilots Labor Discussion

[nycbusdriver]

Nicolau did that. Just because you don't like the result does not mean he did not take the time to consider all of the factors.

Nicolau did balance the outcome. Ask Roland Wilder what he balanced.

Bovine Fecal Matter.

 

[EastUS1]

Ok, Clear,

Now take all of your spin....

Remove all the spin?....All you might reasonably expect to ever receive after that notion is some glassy-eyed, "deer-in-the-headlights-stare" and nothing more pertinent in response. 😉 Your observation will likely be entirely ignored, so's to facilitate the ongoing and ceaseless fantasies.

"Paints a different picture, eh?" Good luck with any coherent response to that sir. "cleardirect" never answers any actually clear and direct questions....So many, many "tells" they offer....I'd so love to play serious poker with any/all of these west posters. 🙂

 

[nycbusdriver]

My hope is that someday you'll understand all the factors involved and realize it was a balanced outcome.

Of course, I'm just a newbie here at the airline. Even though I was senior to your own father. How could I possibly understand?

 

[nycbusdriver]

So, you want the three arbitrators to look at three lists. These same three arbitrators work for the same organization as Arbitrator Nicolau, right? It would be reasonable to presume that since Arbitrator is older, he may perhaps be their acquaintance, perhaps mentor, perhaps even friend.

Since the arbitrators are a relatively small group of people, it would be fair to assume that they would be intimately familiar with Arbitrator Nicolau's logic, award and decision. Do you really think is a smart thing to wish for this after all of the publicly snotty, degrading, harmful things your group has said about Arbitrator Nicolau? Let's see how that works out for you, Skippy.

Doesn't matter. If the arbitrators are presented with three lists, that's what they work from.

And how do you know that they don't think Nicolau had his head up his ass? Is every Supreme Court decision unanimous?

 

[Claxon]

Yet another lie in the long string of lies told by you.

A quick analysis of a DOH list will prove your lie. There is no way the APA pilots want DOH.

yada yada yada,...................

Considering that airline has 125 WB aircraft and a significantly better contract? Did that junior F/O have a career expectation to go from 85% of his list to 41% of a combined list? Anybody that thinks the APA would even consider for a second a DOH with east pilots needs to have his head examined. That is nothing but pure fantasy.

The fences will last the careers of the American Pilots who are on the seniority list today. Like your whining fellow west pilot Bret Butler said in the west pilot meeting, if you "west pilots want to fly a wide body you will have to apply to China Air to do so".

DOH with large fences and separate operations. You get what you brought to the merger, which in the west pilots case, narrow body aircraft in a small PHX hub, competing with Southwest Airlines.

The following is how AMR handled a previous seniority list, just take TWA and insert AWA. This document by the way was given to the AMR creditors committee in April of this year ;;

http://bankrupt.com/misc/AmAir_SuppCCProposals.pdf

 

[A320 Driver]

Doesn't matter. If the arbitrators are presented with three lists, that's what they work from.

And how do you know that they don't think Nicolau had his head up his ass? Is every Supreme Court decision unanimous?

Exactly. They might want to be the three guys that unsnarled this mess and handed out an award they can be proud of. There is NO WAY NIC can say that. He just could not have been more wrong.

Driver...

 

[traderjake]

My only question for you is: Why aren't you on the APA site, telling them all how truly special the west/AWA is, and why they should be given preferential treatment? 🙂

from the APA letter

"We have seen a model for a successfully arbitrated seniority integration at Delta-Northwest using fences and a ratio methodology based on a percentile seniority list ranking."

• 
  

 

[traderjake]

Of course, I'm just a newbie here at the airline. Even though I was senior to your own father. How could I possibly understand?

"Wisdom doesn't necessarily come with age. Sometimes age just shows up all by itself." ~Tom Wilson

If it hasn't happened by now it probably never will.

 

[nycbusdriver]

from the APA letter

"We have seen a model for a successfully arbitrated seniority integration at Delta-Northwest using fences and a ratio methodology based on a percentile seniority list ranking."

• 
  

Of course APA will want a ratio methodology list. DUH! is this supposed to be news? If they could, they would probably staple the lot of us to the bottom, a la TWA.

But they can't. And, barring some mediation, there is little doubt that the ratio they will bring to the arbitration panel will heavily favor APA pilots. That's what their pilots pay them to do. Would that be news, too?

The real question is: Does the USAPA merger committee have any flexibility on DOH? If not, then they can simply attend the mediation phase by fax and save us their hotel and meal expenses.

If, however, they have the leeway to "bend" the USAPA C&B-Ls (I believe at ALPA, merger committees are autonomous to a certain degree and can go with the flow,) then maybe there will be a negotiated agreement with fences visible from outer space. Except for PHX...those fences will actually reach outer space.

 

[EastUS1]

nycbusdriver: "Of course, I'm just a newbie here at the airline. Even though I was senior to your own father. How could I possibly understand?"

If it hasn't happened by now it probably never will.

Are you truly THAT arrogant, or otherwise just-plain-mindless, and entirely incapable of actual thought/respect/etc at ANY level jake? What possibly gives you the fantasy that you should be so entitled? How truly "special" do you imagine yourself to be...and based on, well, WHAT? No matter....Sigh!...You've finally gotten my vote "LT Hardy" = Consider yourself an "honorary" ...umm..."member" of AWA...if even they would have you.

 

[nycbusdriver]

"Wisdom doesn't necessarily come with age. Sometimes age just shows up all by itself." ~Tom Wilson


If it hasn't happened by now it probably never will.

I'm happy to be among the majority, who are absolutely right in this case.

 

[traderjake]

I'm happy to be among the majority, who are absolutely right in this case.

We shall see who is right.

Four seniority arbitrations in a row say I am.

 

[Claxon]

"Wisdom doesn't necessarily come with age. Sometimes age just shows up all by itself." ~Tom Wilson

Wisdom comes with age, you are wrong.

Of course your daddy paid for your education, flying and used his influence to get you an airline job. Your posts on this forum show your lack of wisdom and lack of the hunger pains you avoided in pursuing a career.

 

[traderjake]

Wisdom comes with age, you are wrong.

Says the old village idiot.

 

[EastUS1]

If, however, they have the leeway to "bend" the USAPA C&B-Ls (I believe at ALPA, merger committees are autonomous to a certain degree and can go with the flow,) then maybe there will be a negotiated agreement with fences visible from outer space.

This is also my hope nyc...although it'd have precious little precedent. Little of this directly effects either of us personally, but perhaps enough intelligence exists within both the APA and USAPA elected to see it through...but...truthfully...I'll not hold my breath there yet...although I'm always open for the occassional, happy surprise in life. 🙂

It would be a fine thing to leave those we worked with, for so many years, without little kactus pricks stuck in their "seats" after we're gone. 🙂