Dec 2012 / Jan 2013 US Pilots Labor Discussion

[luvthe9]

Funny no comment on

"We have seen a model for a successfully arbitrated seniority integration at Delta-Northwest using fences and a ratio methodology based on a percentile seniority list ranking."

I guess your late to the game APA is top heavy with old men like us, they seem to favor DOH with a 5 to 7 yr fence with C&R any other way might hurt them, now you go think about that Danny boy. In that time around half of each side will be gone.

 

[traderjake]

I guess your late to the game APA is top heavy with old men like us, they seem to favor DOH with a 5 to 7 yr fence with C&R any other way might hurt them, now you go think about that Danny boy. In that time around half ecah side will be gone.

Excuse me if I consider the APA president a more credible source of information of what the American pilots want than you, old man.

APA is top heavy with wide body pilots and they don't want our narrow body pilots senior to them, with or without fences

 

[EastUS1]

The best idea posted is the one you responded to. Put it all under MB using the current paradigm and let the chips fall.

I'd agree, but only if the intelligence levels and reasoning abilities of both the APA's and USAPA's people aren't up to doing otherwise beforehand.....which, based on much of airline merger history to date, is likely the sad case. I hope I'm wrong there.

 

[prechilill]

Bologna. It is a windfall or you wouldn't want it so bad. You know darn well that anyone working from Wall Street to Walmart would raise hell if you put a newhire in front of them if they had 15 years seniority. If the fairness of the NIC ever sees the light of day in a courtroom, you and your argument will be toast. The only reason the jury sided with you in Addington was because the judge kept it hidden from them.

The best idea posted is the one you responded to. Put it all under MB using the current paradigm and let the chips fall.

Driver...

I don't want Nicolau, I want you all to be stapled- your job was done and you are lucky we saved you. Unfortunately, we had to integrate lists instead of just taking your routes and planes. Now we are stuck with you- like a nail fungus. So be it. APA is our Lamisil... Your pretend world will fall apart with the APA. This is going to be enjoyable to watch!

 

[EastUS1]

....and you are lucky we saved you.

Who's "we"...?..and how did "we" actually "save" anyone? 😉

Sigh!...No matter, since I've so many, many thanks for that savior behavior from AWA's finest pilots. My heart would've instantly stopped beating were it not for AWA's "heroic" and selfless "spartans" "knights" and "heros" who've "fought with valor in many battles"..not to forget "dire wolves" and "Harry Potters"!....And just when I'd thought the Joke of the day had been wrapped up earlier by cactusboy. 🙂

prechill: "I don't want Nicolau, I want you all to be stapled.." There, there sugarplum...It's all OK, really. Would you settle for a nice ice cream, perhaps a lollipop or even banana split instead? How about just some nice milk and cookies? 😉

prechill: "Your pretend world will fall apart with the APA." My "pretend" world's based solely on maintaining opposable thumbs and a pulse, while I'm blessed to do so. Daily reality is the measure of things. Your Fantasyland mileage may (and clearly does) vary to the extreme.

I'd properly given up on this always unheeded advice out west previously, but conversational circumstances now compel = Grow Up! You've, for years now, unfailingly offered up the perspective of a perpetual adolescent, yet you're not a hopelessly stupid person. Please note that your personally being unfailingly bent-out-of-shape at the world around you does nothing to change it in even the tiniest bit. The only one harmed by such a perspective is yourself.

This is just a labor group squabble. No one's in any danger of being killed/wounded/etc over anything here....Mighty "spartans", "knights" and even "dire wolves" notwithstanding. 🙂

 

[luvthe9]

Excuse me if I consider the APA president a more credible source of information of what the American pilots want than you, old man.

APA is top heavy with wide body pilots and they don't want our narrow body pilots senior to them, with or without fences

Hey Danny boy, you made my point, they don't wany ANY of our pilots flying them, don't you understand that? And by the way ALL the APA gentlemen I have spoken to on the jumpseat and the ones I know want that 5 to 7 yr fence. So excuse me, I think THEY are the ones that are telling Wilson what they want.

 

[traderjake]

Hey Danny boy, you made my point, they don't wany ANY of our pilots flying them, don't you understand that? And by the way ALL the APA gentlemen I have spoken to on the jumpseat and the ones I know want that 5 to 7 yr fence. So excuse me, I think THEY are the ones that are telling Wilson what they want.

It's understandable they would say that since you've made it clear only people who agree with you can ride your jump seat.

By the way, 5 to 7 years fences does not mean DOH, I'm sure they want fences around their widebodies even with a slotted list.

 

[A320 Driver]

I don't want Nicolau, I want you all to be stapled- your job was done and you are lucky we saved you. Unfortunately, we had to integrate lists instead of just taking your routes and planes. Now we are stuck with you- like a nail fungus. So be it. APA is our Lamisil... Your pretend world will fall apart with the APA. This is going to be enjoyable to watch!

You are lucky we are saving you and have been since 2008. Don't think for one second that you could have survived the loss of one of your two hubs, looking down that gun barrel which is Southwest Airlines and survived, much less prospered.

APA will do what is best for APA and you aren't even a bug on their windshield.

Driver...

 

[cleardirect]

I guess your late to the game APA is top heavy with old men like us, they seem to favor DOH with a 5 to 7 yr fence with C&R any other way might hurt them, now you go think about that Danny boy. In that time around half of each side will be gone.

Yet another lie in the long string of lies told by you.

A quick analysis of a DOH list will prove your lie. There is no way the APA pilots want DOH.

First exhibit would be the message today from Keith Wilson president of APA.

We have seen a model for a successfully arbitrated seniority integration at Delta-Northwest using fences and a ratio methodology based on a percentile seniority list ranking. Also, if an American Airlines-US Airways seniority integration were to be arbitrated, our attorneys have indicated that the ongoing seniority dispute between “West” and “East” at US Airways would be settled as part of the process and should not have any negative impact on an arbitrator’s decision under the McCaskill-Bond statute.

The DOH list from the APA anti- merger web site shows a total of 14,140 pilots but that is only east and American. 10,732 american, 3415 east. That means that of the total 75.9% are American and 24.1% are east pilots.

On a DOH list 85% or 2900 east pilots are in the top 50% of a combined DOH list, leaving 40% of the American pilots in the top 50% of a combined list. 60% of the american pilots go in to the bottom of the list.

Even though american is 75.9% of the list you have to go down 5000 number before the american pilots make up more than 50% of the list.
That places a junior east F/O senior to an american captain.

There is an unbroken string of 2000 american pilots that are stapled below that 85% of the east. That would be the 7 years that US Airways did not hire because your airline was failing.

From 50% of the combined DOH to the bottom there are only 500 east pilots. That means that 6600 american pilots are essentially stapled to the bottom mixed in with only 500 east pilots.

Does anyone in their right mind believe that the APA is going to allow 6600 of their pilots to be stapled below 85% of the east pilots? Does anyone believe that an arbitrator would place an F/O senior to a captain and let a string of 2000 pilots from the same airline happen without breaking that up? That an arbitrator would create a list that had 70% of one airline in the bottom 50% of a combine list.

Considering that airline has 125 WB aircraft and a significantly better contract? Did that junior F/O have a career expectation to go from 85% of his list to 41% of a combined list? Anybody that thinks the APA would even consider for a second a DOH with east pilots needs to have his head examined. That is nothing but pure fantasy.

 

[Claxon]

AMR and Pilots Face Obstacles in Merger Talks


http://www.forbes.co...artner=yahootix

Since you a United Pilot, like to come on other airline boards, I thought I might as well give you info on your new contract timeline that was not sent to you yet by your union. There are many so I will put them out in a few posts tonight.

"United Pilot Agreement
Expanded Implementation Schedule
Note: The December 2012, January 2013, and February 2013 bid months do not start and end on the same days at s-UA and s-CA. Because of this, the implementation dates for items in the first three months, and the retroactive increases for the current month differ by one day.
Topics

3-A : Pay Rates (including 16% B/C plan)
Pay rates implemented November 30th s-UA, December 1st s-CA; however, blended rate paid for all time until combined CMS for s-UA 767 and Airbus fleets
2.
3-C-1-b-(1)-(a) and ( B): Pay for unused SC/FSB
sUA - Implemented Dec 30th s-UA, Jan 1st s-CA for Jan Bid Period
sCO – Full implementation to be developed by the Joint Implementation Team (JIT)
3.
3-C-2 : PTC (sCO - Trip Protection value established at PBS award)
Implemented Dec 30th s-UA, Jan 1st s-CA for Jan Bid Period
4.
3-C-3-c-(1) : Overs Leg-by-Leg (greater of scheduled or actual for each leg)
Implemented Dec 30th s-UA, Jan 1st s-CA for Jan Bid Period
(*interim measure for sUA)
5.
Senior Man/Junior Manning Pay override increased to 100%
Implemented Dec 30th s-UA, Jan 1st s-CA for Jan Bid Period
6.
Inverse Assignment/Involuntary Junior Manning
sUA - Full implementation to be developed by the Joint Implementation Team (JIT)
sCO – Starting Dec 30th s-UA, Jan 1st s-CA, at the end of a pairing limited to two times per year for any pilot (waivable). If Trip is open earlier than 6 hours prior to report, no involuntary junior manning unless trip published for voluntary junior manning.
Full implementation to be developed by the Joint Implementation Team (JIT)
7.
20-H-5-a : SRM Trips
Senior Manning Trips will be offered by Bulletin starting Dec 30th s-UA, Jan 1st s-CA. The rest of the SRM process to be developed by the Joint Implementation Team (JIT)
8.
20-K-3-c-(6) : One Short Call per Day
Implemented Dec 30th s-UA, Jan 1st s-CA for Jan Bid Period
9.
20-K-3-d-(2) : Bypass for Reserve to Lineholder Transition (change to FIFO rules)
sUA - Implemented Dec 30th s-UA, Jan 1st s-CA for Jan Bid Period
sCO - Full implementation to be developed by the Joint Implementation Team (JIT)
10.
3-B-3 : Longevity During Furlough (pay increase for UAL furloughees at CAL)
Implemented Jan 30th s-UA, Jan 31st s-CA for Feb Bid Period
11.
9-D-3 : CQ Travel Booking (15 minute report time rule)
Implemented Jan 30th s-UA, Jan 31st s-CA for Feb Bid Period
12.
11-E-4-b : Monthly Vacation with OE Blocker Days (restriction on Vacation bidding if OE)
Implemented Jan 30th s-UA, Jan 31st s-CA for Feb Bid Peri

 

[Claxon]

More UAL CAL new contract implementation timelines;

3-F : Vacation Pay Value 3:15 per Day
Implemented Mar 2 for Mar Bid Period
(*interim measure-pay only for Mar, credit in Aug)

Minimum Domicile Rest 12:45
sCO - Implemented as increased Domicile Rest Mar 2nd for Mar Bid Period for Lineholders in PBS only

5-G-2 : Day Rig (5 per Day) Pay Only (trips will not show with 5 hours credit in PBS until 9th month)
Implemented Mar 2nd for Mar Bid Period (*interim measure)

LOA : 1 for 4 Rig
Implemented Mar 2nd for Mar Bid Period

3-E-1-a : Training > 5 days. Pay and Credit. (3.0 hours per day)
Implemented Mar 2nd for Mar Bid Period

 

[EastUS1]

.... have a career expectation ....

Sheesh!...Competition for the Joke of the day never ceases! 🙂 A kindly suggestion here = Take any/all of your or anyone's "expections" to the nearest bank and ask for a loan based on them. Let us all know how that works out for you. 🙂

"When I grow up I'll turn the tables!" 😉

 

[Claxon]

Jetz, update on your pass privileges;

UAL pilots

December 24, 2012

The following is from Pass Travel Coordinator Captain Pat Palazzolo.

Pass Travel Deadlines

December 30th is the last day to add enrolled friends.

If you are married or in a domestic partnership you may add a 2013 Enrolled Friend by restricting your 24 2013 buddy passes to eligible family members only -- grandparents, parents in law, siblings (but not their spouses), grown children or grandchildren. Note that grown children using Family Buddy passes travel at the same priority as grown children using an enrolled friend status -- SA4P rather than the normal Family Buddy Pass priority of SA6F.

If you are single you may add a second enrolled friend for 2013 by restricting your 24 2013 buddy passes to Family Buddies only.

You can make Enrolled Friend changes in "All About Me" on SkyNet.

December 31st is the date the company will move the employeeRes link off the front page of SkyNet. The link is being moved to the Travel section of SkyNet.

If you want to still access employeeRes from the first page of SkyNet, you can click on the link just below the employeeRes link and it will copy the employeeRes link to your "My Tools" links on the top left side of the SkyNet page. If you don't click on this link by December 31st, you will have to manually add the employeeRes link to "My Tools" after that date.

 

[mrbreeze]

Yet another lie in the long string of lies told by you.

A quick analysis of a DOH list will prove your lie. There is no way the APA pilots want DOH.

First exhibit would be the message today from Keith Wilson president of APA.





The DOH list from the APA anti- merger web site shows a total of 14,140 pilots but that is only east and American. 10,732 american, 3415 east. That means that of the total 75.9% are American and 24.1% are east pilots.

On a DOH list 85% or 2900 east pilots are in the top 50% of a combined DOH list, leaving 40% of the American pilots in the top 50% of a combined list. 60% of the american pilots go in to the bottom of the list.

Even though american is 75.9% of the list you have to go down 5000 number before the american pilots make up more than 50% of the list.
That places a junior east F/O senior to an american captain.

There is an unbroken string of 2000 american pilots that are stapled below that 85% of the east. That would be the 7 years that US Airways did not hire because your airline was failing.

From 50% of the combined DOH to the bottom there are only 500 east pilots. That means that 6600 american pilots are essentially stapled to the bottom mixed in with only 500 east pilots.

Does anyone in their right mind believe that the APA is going to allow 6600 of their pilots to be stapled below 85% of the east pilots? Does anyone believe that an arbitrator would place an F/O senior to a captain and let a string of 2000 pilots from the same airline happen without breaking that up? That an arbitrator would create a list that had 70% of one airline in the bottom 50% of a combine list.

Considering that airline has 125 WB aircraft and a significantly better contract? Did that junior F/O have a career expectation to go from 85% of his list to 41% of a combined list? Anybody that thinks the APA would even consider for a second a DOH with east pilots needs to have his head examined. That is nothing but pure fantasy.

Ok, Clear,

Now take all of your spin and factor in a 7 year fence with the amount of attrition taking place during that 7 years. Paints a different picture, eh?

breeze

 

[EastUS1]

By the way, 5 to 7 years fences does not mean DOH, I'm sure they want fences around their widebodies even with a slotted list.

Well..."DUH!" trader. My only question for you is: Why aren't you on the APA site, telling them all how truly special the west/AWA is, and why they should be given preferential treatment over your coworkers of many years? 🙂