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Dec 2012 / Jan 2013 US Pilots Labor Discussion

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Yes, the world revolves around our little disagreement. Yes, little in the grand scheme of life.

Actually, it kind of does. When DAL & NWA merged (Hey, did you know that they just got their SECOND post merger contract? Isn't that GREAT?), they specifically made mention that they did not wish to go the USAPA path. CAL / UAL have also made the same commentary.

I think it's pretty fair to say that the APA officers & board (not to mention the pilot body) also know what its all about.

USAPA = the inky smudge in airline pilot labor relations.
 
Do i sense i tad bit of sarcasm? i can smell a 767 bid ... could you EXACTLY bid a widebody in may of 2005? not only are there butt loads of retirements for as far as we can see, but there is a need for more pilots for aircraft orders, new rest rules and this doesnt even address a training float ... which you probably dont know much about with a single aircraft fleet (5 757s dont count) ... and you are very welcome for the $5000 profit sharing check you will get next year. reality is a c**t !

Well yes, I could have bid B757 (they still count as they are real airplanes) in 2005 and hold a reasonably senior line. I worked harder to make the company money in 2012 than most 3 engine taxi specialists, so I earned that profit sharing check. BTW, you really aren't writing the check. In fact, the alleged USAPA safety campaign actually cost us all some $$ in last years bonus.

Did you get called back to work here at the new US Airways? Don't tell me you're that urban legend I hear about (the SWA B737 Captain that returns because DOH was going to happen)? Maybe a CEL pilot that never was mainline, and now bidding narrow body Captain. Good for you, Sunshine.
 
Actually, it kind of does. When DAL & NWA merged (Hey, did you know that they just got their SECOND post merger contract? Isn't that GREAT?), they specifically made mention that they did not wish to go the USAPA path. CAL / UAL have also made the same commentary.

I think it's pretty fair to say that the APA officers & board (not to mention the pilot body) also know what its all about.

USAPA = the inky smudge in airline pilot labor relations.


I think you meant something else...... Here is the real smudge.





JUMPSEAT PROTECTION LIST MAR 01 (chg 5)
1
THIS IS THE US MASTER PILOT SCABLISTTHE UNIONIST’S EDITION
A
SCAB
is A Person Who is Doing What You’d be Doing if You Weren’t on Strike.A
SCAB
takes your job, a Job he could not get under normal circumstances. He can only advance himself by taking advantage of labor disputesand walking over the backs of workers trying to maintain decent wages and working conditions. He helps management to destroy his and yourprofession, often ending up under conditions he/she wouldn't even have scabbed for. No matter. A
SCAB
doesn't think long term, nor does hethink of anything other then himself. His smile shows fangs that drip with your blood, for he willingly destroys families, lives, careers, opportunitiesand professions at the drop of a hat. He takes from a striker what he knows he could never earn by his own merit: a decent Job. He steals thatwhich others earned at the bargaining table through blood, sweat and tears, and throws it away in an instant - ruining lives, jobs and careers.
ONCE A SCAB, ALWAYS A SCAB - NEVER FORGET!
Below are brief notes about legal strikes by organized pilots.
1.
Century Airlines 1932
: Pilots struck to resist wage reduction by E.L Cord, the patron saint of Frank Lorenzo.2.
TWA 1946
: Pilots struck over pay on faster 4 engine aircraft, limited by the provisions of Decision 83.3.
National Airlines 1948
: Strike over aircraft safety and repeated violations of the labor contract.4.
Western Airlines 1958
: Qualifications of the Flight Engineer.5.
Southern Airways 1960
: Strike over wage rates at regional carrier vs. larger airline.6.
Rio Airways 1976
: Pilots represented by the Union of Professional Airmen, an ALPA affiliate, struck over issues of seniority, pay, safety andsystem board neutrality after failing to negotiate first contract.7.
Wien Air Alaska 1977
: Crew complement on B-727.8.
Continental Airlines 1983
: Struck to resist Frank Lorenzo’s use of Bankruptcy Law to abrogate labor contracts.9.
Pan American 1985
: Pilots MEC elected to honor TWU picket line. These people did not honor that strike.10.
United Airlines 1985
: Forced by mgmt to strike over B-Scale pay rates and the company attempt to break UAL ALPA.11.
Eastern Airlines 1989
: Pilots honored IAM picket lines against Frank Lorenzo’ s asset-stripping of EAL to favor Continental.12.
AFAP 1989
: Australian Federation of Air Pilots at 4 domestic airlines quit to protect retirement after disputing government wage controlprogram. Some Americans, among others, happily filled in.13
Comair 2001
: Pilots struck over poor pay and work rules. They fought to end the second class treatment of all Small Jet pilots.Other Notes: The "Ident" column gives employee number, Soc. Sec. #, date of birth (dob), ATP number, date of hire (doh), or other means ofidentification. "Seniority Suit" means those Scabs at UAL who sued the union and the company to prevent the 570 from regaining their properseniority position. "Fleet Qualified" (FQ, Flt Qual, etc.) are those hired off the street under a special pay plan and with promises of super-seniorityto replace union pilots at United. ALPA – Some scabs are ALPA members because the ’85 Back-to-Work agreement forced the union not to“discriminate” against the back-stabbers who tried to steal their jobs and seniority. Some Scabs never resigned from the union and continue topay dues. Some scabs did some penance and were forgiven by ALPA (but NOT forgotten) and re-admitted. Some simply fell through the cracksand got into the union after a merger, name change, etc (PAA). A date for an EAL Scab is his date of hire, no date means he’s old Eastern. "???"by an EAL Scab means that the name appeared on several Scab lists during the strike but was absent from the final list. Other remarks showpast Employers or other claims to infamy. MOST Scabs at CAL have a LETTER at the END of their employee number (but not all have this). TheContinental “Preferential Hire” List is on the last page. Most employee numbers are listed (ie 0220B).
**For any corrections/additions/updates PLEASE email Scablist@hotmail.com!**

HERE IS A SUMMARY OF THE NUMBER OF SCABS FROM EACH AIRLINE:
Air North Summary AirNorth Both Scabs ListedAustralian Summary AFAP 89 85 America West & Braniff ScabsCentury Summary Century 1 Scab Identified Thus FarContinental Summary CAL 83 2,019 Scabs listedEastern Summary EAL 89 2,255 Scabs ListedNational Summary NAL 48 101 Scabs listed out of 167 totalNorthwest Summary NWA 78 34 Scabs listedPan American Summary PAA 85 139 Scabs listedPrinair Summary Prinair 2 Scabs listedRio Airways Summary RIO 76 43 Scabs listedSouthern Summary SOU 60 205 Scabs listedTWA Summary TWA 46 2 Scabs listedUnited Summary UAL 85 935 Scabs listedWestern Summary WAL 58 3 Scabs listedWien Air Alaska Summmary WAA 77 82 Scabs listedComair Summary CMR 01 3 Scabs listed

TOTAL
 
Crack a book, actually THE book:

Proverbs 26:26, Matthew 10:26, Luke 8:17. YES, all of our actions are on record (mine too). If you don't believe, so be it. If you do, I would be truly concerned if I were you.

The Leonidas site has never gone down, nor gone away. The forum that is attached to that is there for ANY US Airways pilot that wishes to discuss our issues out in the open. It is the place where you can read all of the Nicolau award & all of the legal filings is this paper chase to Date of Hire. Come and visit us: www.cactuspilot.com

Clips you say? How about all the clips in PHX where Bradford comes out to tell us that USAPA will have a NEW seniority list based on DOH? It also includes Lee Seham: https://www.youtube....h?v=-xO8PnZWWnE

CB
Hey Dave, just curious how do you get along with JJ, aka. Move2 who absolutely hates God. Why not take him to church with you, the boy really needs some guidance from above.
 
Merger is ON.

Poor little Loenidas - lived up to their name circa 2012.
Now now, I hear the APA can't wait to use the NIC it's seems they want all of the westies to ahead of themselves, and they will all go right to the 777 since they saved us all. :lol: :lol: :lol:
 
Proverbs 26:26, Matthew 10:26, Luke 8:17. YES, all of our actions are on record (mine too). If you don't believe, so be it. If you do, I would be truly concerned if I were you.

"If you do, I would be truly concerned if I were you." Somehow?...I'm simply unable to currently conclude that you've a more direct link to The Allmighty and that He is thus a grand proponent of the nic. I'll leave any and all such concerns to Him. I would become more truly concerned with both the state of my spirit and what sanity I possess, should the day ever come that I feel myself so astonishingly arrogant as to EVER presume, in even the tiniest bit, on His Will....just sayin'. I'd gently suggest though, that with all that constantly transpires in this vast universe, entire galaxies colliding, new stars being born,etc, in even just what little we know of...well...it's not entirely impossible that The Lord has better issues to be concerned with than your precious nic....Just a thought.

While we're discussing The Book though; have you ever stumbled across this?: "Thou shalt not covet thy neighbour's house, thou shalt not covet thy neighbour's wife, nor his manservant, nor his maidservant, nor his ox, nor his ass, nor any thing that is thy neighbour's."...? One must wonder if that doesn't properly apply also to thy neighbor's attrition, domiciles and aircraft? 😉 Ah!..Don't give it a thought. I wouldn't want to rain on any of your supposed "righteousness" out there. 🙂
 
I think you meant something else...... Here is the real smudge.





JUMPSEAT PROTECTION LIST MAR 01 (chg 5)
1
THIS IS THE US MASTER PILOT SCABLISTTHE UNIONIST’S EDITION
A
SCAB
is A Person Who is Doing What You’d be Doing if You Weren’t on Strike.A
SCAB
takes your job, a Job he could not get under normal circumstances. He can only advance himself by taking advantage of labor disputesand walking over the backs of workers trying to maintain decent wages and working conditions. He helps management to destroy his and yourprofession, often ending up under conditions he/she wouldn't even have scabbed for. No matter. A
SCAB
doesn't think long term, nor does hethink of anything other then himself. His smile shows fangs that drip with your blood, for he willingly destroys families, lives, careers, opportunitiesand professions at the drop of a hat. He takes from a striker what he knows he could never earn by his own merit: a decent Job. He steals thatwhich others earned at the bargaining table through blood, sweat and tears, and throws it away in an instant - ruining lives, jobs and careers.
ONCE A SCAB, ALWAYS A SCAB - NEVER FORGET!
Below are brief notes about legal strikes by organized pilots.
1.
Century Airlines 1932
: Pilots struck to resist wage reduction by E.L Cord, the patron saint of Frank Lorenzo.2.
TWA 1946
: Pilots struck over pay on faster 4 engine aircraft, limited by the provisions of Decision 83.3.
National Airlines 1948
: Strike over aircraft safety and repeated violations of the labor contract.4.
Western Airlines 1958
: Qualifications of the Flight Engineer.5.
Southern Airways 1960
: Strike over wage rates at regional carrier vs. larger airline.6.
Rio Airways 1976
: Pilots represented by the Union of Professional Airmen, an ALPA affiliate, struck over issues of seniority, pay, safety andsystem board neutrality after failing to negotiate first contract.7.
Wien Air Alaska 1977
: Crew complement on B-727.8.
Continental Airlines 1983
: Struck to resist Frank Lorenzo’s use of Bankruptcy Law to abrogate labor contracts.9.
Pan American 1985
: Pilots MEC elected to honor TWU picket line. These people did not honor that strike.10.
United Airlines 1985
: Forced by mgmt to strike over B-Scale pay rates and the company attempt to break UAL ALPA.11.
Eastern Airlines 1989
: Pilots honored IAM picket lines against Frank Lorenzo’ s asset-stripping of EAL to favor Continental.12.
AFAP 1989
: Australian Federation of Air Pilots at 4 domestic airlines quit to protect retirement after disputing government wage controlprogram. Some Americans, among others, happily filled in.13
Comair 2001
: Pilots struck over poor pay and work rules. They fought to end the second class treatment of all Small Jet pilots.Other Notes: The "Ident" column gives employee number, Soc. Sec. #, date of birth (dob), ATP number, date of hire (doh), or other means ofidentification. "Seniority Suit" means those Scabs at UAL who sued the union and the company to prevent the 570 from regaining their properseniority position. "Fleet Qualified" (FQ, Flt Qual, etc.) are those hired off the street under a special pay plan and with promises of super-seniorityto replace union pilots at United. ALPA – Some scabs are ALPA members because the ’85 Back-to-Work agreement forced the union not to“discriminate” against the back-stabbers who tried to steal their jobs and seniority. Some Scabs never resigned from the union and continue topay dues. Some scabs did some penance and were forgiven by ALPA (but NOT forgotten) and re-admitted. Some simply fell through the cracksand got into the union after a merger, name change, etc (PAA). A date for an EAL Scab is his date of hire, no date means he’s old Eastern. "???"by an EAL Scab means that the name appeared on several Scab lists during the strike but was absent from the final list. Other remarks showpast Employers or other claims to infamy. MOST Scabs at CAL have a LETTER at the END of their employee number (but not all have this). TheContinental “Preferential Hire” List is on the last page. Most employee numbers are listed (ie 0220B).
**For any corrections/additions/updates PLEASE email Scablist@hotmail.com!**

HERE IS A SUMMARY OF THE NUMBER OF SCABS FROM EACH AIRLINE:
ListedAustralian Summary AFAP 89 85 America West & OTAL
That's funny I did not see USAir on the list, and they call us scabs, huh.
 
Well yes, I could have bid B757 (they still count as they are real airplanes) in 2005 and hold a reasonably senior line. I worked harder to make the company money in 2012 than most 3 engine taxi specialists, so I earned that profit sharing check. BTW, you really aren't writing the check. In fact, the alleged USAPA safety campaign actually cost us all some $$ in last years bonus.

Did you get called back to work here at the new US Airways? Don't tell me you're that urban legend I hear about (the SWA B737 Captain that returns because DOH was going to happen)? Maybe a CEL pilot that never was mainline, and now bidding narrow body Captain. Good for you, Sunshine.
When this union got started I was actually naive in thinking that we could offer some compromise with the West. But they continue to stand their ground especially after Harpers rant to Szymanski.

I will now say that it is too late by far for any compromise from either side. Although I have flown with West pilots that have been recalled (and really happy to have a job to support their families) AOL continues on its self destructive scorched earth policy with no success in sight. This issue is now permanently engrained into the US Airways culture and we all must now live with it. West pilots call us scabs, jamb phone lines, send crap, accuse us of job actions, burning gas, not asking for "direct" (not knowing the meaning of NRP), and many other things. Dave Simmons BPR member invites us to join them for a discussion at the cactus pilot forum and for what? To listen them pontificate to us(or is that deficate on us) about honor and final and binding? Been there, done that, waste of time.

They don't like USAPA (really they mean YOU, you know....Mike "we hate you guys" _____.

THEY REALLY HATE US.....LIKE......FOREVER!

I'm so tired of hearing about Delta/NW has second contract from D.E. Guess what, ALPA didn't want either of us on the planet and he even admits it. ALPA was no closer to getting any of us a contract then than now. We have an issue that will be with this company for the remainder of our careers here and it's too late to change...PERIOD.

So be it. Here is the short answer:

IF YOU DON'T LIKE IT QUIT AND GO WORK SOMEWHERE ELSE.

In fact if (I give it short odds at best) that were we to ever get together under DOH contract the West would make the flying existence for everyone a most miserable existence.

It's best to let them be in PHX and we can grow over here.

We won't change their minds, let them suffer the results of their choices.
 
end_of_alpa, on 07 December 2012 - 06:23 PM, said:
Yes, the world revolves around our little disagreement. Yes, little in the grand scheme of life.

Actually, it kind of does........

Actually?...We're definately done here now. 🙂
 
Crack a book, actually THE book:

Proverbs 26:26, Matthew 10:26, Luke 8:17. YES, all of our actions are on record (mine too). If you don't believe, so be it. If you do, I would be truly concerned if I were you.

The Leonidas site has never gone down, nor gone away. The forum that is attached to that is there for ANY US Airways pilot that wishes to discuss our issues out in the open. It is the place where you can read all of the Nicolau award & all of the legal filings is this paper chase to Date of Hire. Come and visit us: www.cactuspilot.com

Clips you say? How about all the clips in PHX where Bradford comes out to tell us that USAPA will have a NEW seniority list based on DOH? It also includes Lee Seham: https://www.youtube....h?v=-xO8PnZWWnE

CB
Crack a book, actually THE book:

Proverbs 26:26, Matthew 10:26, Luke 8:17. YES, all of our actions are on record (mine too). If you don't believe, so be it. If you do, I would be truly concerned if I were you.

The Leonidas site has never gone down, nor gone away. The forum that is attached to that is there for ANY US Airways pilot that wishes to discuss our issues out in the open. It is the place where you can read all of the Nicolau award & all of the legal filings is this paper chase to Date of Hire. Come and visit us: www.cactuspilot.com

Clips you say? How about all the clips in PHX where Bradford comes out to tell us that USAPA will have a NEW seniority list based on DOH? It also includes Lee Seham: https://www.youtube....h?v=-xO8PnZWWnE

CB

So tell me "preacher":

Am I going to hell too?
 
THEY REALLY HATE US.....LIKE......FOREVER!

Oh Well. I suspect life will yet go on for all concerned.....

end_of_alpa: "When this union got started I was actually naive in thinking that we could offer some compromise with the West." Don't fret playing the part of the Lone Ranger there. I had NO idea at first just what kind of people were being dealt with there. There are indeed decent and rational folks in the west group, but they certainly don't have much overall impact on the politics and fantasies. In full fairness; the sane ones are pretty much stuck with being along for the ride as well.
 
OK, I can take most of it, but now the CREATOR is mad at us?

Well...after all these years of merely "the rest of the world", at least "the entire aviation community" (older quoted material) and most recently; apparently all of our friends and even families dismissing us for not nobly embracing the thought of enfranchising some to leap over ten-years-plus of others' worked years...it was bound to happen 🙂

You...just...can't/couldn't...EVER make this "stuff" UP! 😉 Well...at least no even marginally sane people could. That last not offered in jest at all. I used to think that "delusional" was a bit over-the-top terminology for some of the aberrant fantasies floated about on this board, but no more.
 
Well...after all these years of merely "the rest of the world", at least "the entire aviation community" (older quoted material) and most recently; apparently all of our friends and even families dismissing us for not nobly embracing the thought of enfranchising some to leap over ten-years-plus of others' worked years...it was bound to happen 🙂

You...just...can't/couldn't...EVER make this "stuff" UP! 😉 Well...at least no even marginally sane people could. That last not offered in jest at all. I used to think that delusional was a bit over-the-top for some of the aberrant fantasies floated about on this board, but no more.
Hey it is PHXTASYLAND!
 
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