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Dec 2012 / Jan 2013 US Pilots Labor Discussion

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I think you meant something else...... Here is the real smudge.





JUMPSEAT PROTECTION LIST MAR 01 (chg 5)
1
THIS IS THE US MASTER PILOT SCABLISTTHE UNIONIST’S EDITION
A
SCAB
is A Person Who is Doing What You’d be Doing if You Weren’t on Strike.A
SCAB
takes your job, a Job he could not get under normal circumstances. He can only advance himself by taking advantage of labor disputesand walking over the backs of workers trying to maintain decent wages and working conditions. He helps management to destroy his and yourprofession, often ending up under conditions he/she wouldn't even have scabbed for. No matter. A
SCAB
doesn't think long term, nor does hethink of anything other then himself. His smile shows fangs that drip with your blood, for he willingly destroys families, lives, careers, opportunitiesand professions at the drop of a hat. He takes from a striker what he knows he could never earn by his own merit: a decent Job. He steals thatwhich others earned at the bargaining table through blood, sweat and tears, and throws it away in an instant - ruining lives, jobs and careers.
ONCE A SCAB, ALWAYS A SCAB - NEVER FORGET!
Below are brief notes about legal strikes by organized pilots.
1.
Century Airlines 1932
: Pilots struck to resist wage reduction by E.L Cord, the patron saint of Frank Lorenzo.2.
TWA 1946
: Pilots struck over pay on faster 4 engine aircraft, limited by the provisions of Decision 83.3.
National Airlines 1948
: Strike over aircraft safety and repeated violations of the labor contract.4.
Western Airlines 1958
: Qualifications of the Flight Engineer.5.
Southern Airways 1960
: Strike over wage rates at regional carrier vs. larger airline.6.
Rio Airways 1976
: Pilots represented by the Union of Professional Airmen, an ALPA affiliate, struck over issues of seniority, pay, safety andsystem board neutrality after failing to negotiate first contract.7.
Wien Air Alaska 1977
: Crew complement on B-727.8.
Continental Airlines 1983
: Struck to resist Frank Lorenzo’s use of Bankruptcy Law to abrogate labor contracts.9.
Pan American 1985
: Pilots MEC elected to honor TWU picket line. These people did not honor that strike.10.
United Airlines 1985
: Forced by mgmt to strike over B-Scale pay rates and the company attempt to break UAL ALPA.11.
Eastern Airlines 1989
: Pilots honored IAM picket lines against Frank Lorenzo’ s asset-stripping of EAL to favor Continental.12.
AFAP 1989
: Australian Federation of Air Pilots at 4 domestic airlines quit to protect retirement after disputing government wage controlprogram. Some Americans, among others, happily filled in.13
Comair 2001
: Pilots struck over poor pay and work rules. They fought to end the second class treatment of all Small Jet pilots.Other Notes: The "Ident" column gives employee number, Soc. Sec. #, date of birth (dob), ATP number, date of hire (doh), or other means ofidentification. "Seniority Suit" means those Scabs at UAL who sued the union and the company to prevent the 570 from regaining their properseniority position. "Fleet Qualified" (FQ, Flt Qual, etc.) are those hired off the street under a special pay plan and with promises of super-seniorityto replace union pilots at United. ALPA – Some scabs are ALPA members because the ’85 Back-to-Work agreement forced the union not to“discriminate” against the back-stabbers who tried to steal their jobs and seniority. Some Scabs never resigned from the union and continue topay dues. Some scabs did some penance and were forgiven by ALPA (but NOT forgotten) and re-admitted. Some simply fell through the cracksand got into the union after a merger, name change, etc (PAA). A date for an EAL Scab is his date of hire, no date means he’s old Eastern. "???"by an EAL Scab means that the name appeared on several Scab lists during the strike but was absent from the final list. Other remarks showpast Employers or other claims to infamy. MOST Scabs at CAL have a LETTER at the END of their employee number (but not all have this). TheContinental “Preferential Hire” List is on the last page. Most employee numbers are listed (ie 0220B).
**For any corrections/additions/updates PLEASE email Scablist@hotmail.com!**

HERE IS A SUMMARY OF THE NUMBER OF SCABS FROM EACH AIRLINE:
Air North Summary AirNorth Both Scabs ListedAustralian Summary AFAP 89 85 America West & Braniff ScabsCentury Summary Century 1 Scab Identified Thus FarContinental Summary CAL 83 2,019 Scabs listedEastern Summary EAL 89 2,255 Scabs ListedNational Summary NAL 48 101 Scabs listed out of 167 totalNorthwest Summary NWA 78 34 Scabs listedPan American Summary PAA 85 139 Scabs listedPrinair Summary Prinair 2 Scabs listedRio Airways Summary RIO 76 43 Scabs listedSouthern Summary SOU 60 205 Scabs listedTWA Summary TWA 46 2 Scabs listedUnited Summary UAL 85 935 Scabs listedWestern Summary WAL 58 3 Scabs listedWien Air Alaska Summmary WAA 77 82 Scabs listedComair Summary CMR 01 3 Scabs listed

TOTAL

Whew! Thanks for making the list bigger. Some days you could make the font as big as a Lincoln CONTINENTAL, and I would still have to use x-RAY glasses to read!! You know what they say.....it would be CRIMInal to let the voices of FREEDOM go unheard.

I'm sure there are more, I just don't have time to go through the entire list Sunshine. See you next week.
 
So get me caught up pleez, the "little spartans aka cactusboy, boygeorge whatever, is claiming collusion? They(AOL) dismiss the company during the Desert judge, golf lessons DFR wannabee "show", and now claim collusion and EBERWEINE, "THE VP OF COMMUNICATIONS" for USAIRWAYS is married to an AWA/ USAIRWAYS pilot WEBBER, (who is a major contributor to "MARTY" AKA the AOL), and a big member!, Does that sorta sum up the PHXTASYLAND,EXPERIENCE? Wow luv to hear that "COLLUSION THEORY"
 
So tell me "preacher":

Am I going to hell too?

I didn't say anyone was going to Hell (necessarily). That is a matter of choice and accepting a simple gift.

My remarks pertained to the continued attack against the AWA pilots (for following the rules & guidelines defending ourselves) in an attempt at career recovery, and to shame anyone with a conscience / soul of the same. ANYONE brought up in the 40+ years would have been taught by their parents, grandparents & church that this is morally & ethically wrong (most specifically the vile RICO lawsuit & address-gate that has cost us personally well over $100K). It's not even that tough to see, frankly.

If you don't see the obvious, then perhaps you are in need of some personal introspection (IMHO). Good night & God Bless, boys.
 
When this union got started I was actually naive in thinking that we could offer some compromise with the West. But they continue to stand their ground especially after Harpers rant to Szymanski.

I will now say that it is too late by far for any compromise from either side. Although I have flown with West pilots that have been recalled (and really happy to have a job to support their families) AOL continues on its self destructive scorched earth policy with no success in sight. This issue is now permanently engrained into the US Airways culture and we all must now live with it. West pilots call us scabs, jamb phone lines, send crap, accuse us of job actions, burning gas, not asking for "direct" (not knowing the meaning of NRP), and many other things. Dave Simmons BPR member invites us to join them for a discussion at the cactus pilot forum and for what? To listen them pontificate to us(or is that deficate on us) about honor and final and binding? Been there, done that, waste of time.

They don't like USAPA (really they mean YOU, you know....Mike "we hate you guys" _____.

THEY REALLY HATE US.....LIKE......FOREVER!

I'm so tired of hearing about Delta/NW has second contract from D.E. Guess what, ALPA didn't want either of us on the planet and he even admits it. ALPA was no closer to getting any of us a contract then than now. We have an issue that will be with this company for the remainder of our careers here and it's too late to change...PERIOD.

So be it. Here is the short answer:

IF YOU DON'T LIKE IT QUIT AND GO WORK SOMEWHERE ELSE.

In fact if (I give it short odds at best) that were we to ever get together under DOH contract the West would make the flying existence for everyone a most miserable existence.

It's best to let them be in PHX and we can grow over here.

We won't change their minds, let them suffer the results of their choices.

This coming from a guy who even the hardliners thought was too crazy too elect.
 
Oh Well. I suspect life will yet go on for all concerned.....

end_of_alpa: "When this union got started I was actually naive in thinking that we could offer some compromise with the West." Don't fret playing the part of the Lone Ranger there. I had NO idea at first just what kind of people were being dealt with there. There are indeed decent and rational folks in the west group, but they certainly don't have much overall impact on the politics and fantasies. In full fairness; the sane ones are pretty much stuck with being along for the ride as well.

Said the east idiot. You pretty much described your own pilot group there boo. Hated by the industry and one another.
 
Said the east idiot. You pretty much described your own pilot group there boo. Hated by the industry and one another.

"There are indeed decent and rational folks in the west group.." Rest assured that I didn't have you at all in mind there. Enjoy your rabid, poisonous fantasies, and of course...PHX 😉
 
I didn't say anyone was going to Hell (necessarily). That is a matter of choice and accepting a simple gift.

My remarks pertained to the continued attack against the AWA pilots (for following the rules & guidelines defending ourselves) in an attempt at career recovery, and to shame anyone with a conscience / soul of the same. ANYONE brought up in the 40+ years would have been taught by their parents, grandparents & church that this is morally & ethically wrong (most specifically the vile RICO lawsuit & address-gate that has cost us personally well over $100K). It's not even that tough to see, frankly.

If you don't see the obvious, then perhaps you are in need of some personal introspection (IMHO). Good night & God Bless, boys.
Really? Oh the holy roller routine, were guilty of no wrong doing , attacked by the big bad USAPA, your a bunch of evil ole farts,your so full of sh$&, you are making us LOFAO!
 
Sorry you guys all are sissys... why do you fight so much... its so very old and we dont care... give it a rest... live life today... and stop your fight... its so very old... give it up... just take your seniority.. and move on with it... you are all ... i wont say it...
 
I would encourage all pilots to participate in the forum over at cactuspilot.com. It has always been west centric and even the east ALPA supporters outnumber the east USAPA supporters. But the cite is well moderated, only LCC pilots can participate and everyone's real identity is known.

Which means that the kind of mud slinging which takes place here on a regular basis is avoided.

I think the reason some of us continue to engage here and elsewhere is to maintain some semblence of dialogue, however tenuous, with the each other - which is constructive.

USAPA made a bad decision not to erect its own pilot forum. Pilots can't help but to engage each other, whether in crew rooms or virtual crew rooms.
 
This coming from a guy who even the hardliners thought was too crazy too elect.
So, you're back. What a shame. Hard liners, huh. That's RICH COMING FROM YOU.

You may be right. Maybe I am unelectable. To be quite frank, it's not breaking my heart. When it comes to politics I don't have a tendency beat around the bush. I tell it like it really is and so far, I've been right on the money. (Again, except for the naive thought of mending any fences with the West, that ship has sailed).

I believe in teamwork in any organization if it is to survive for any length of time. It may very well be that the time for unionism has seen better days and choose a side. I have intense debates about the roles we can play to achieve a better life among us. But here at US Airways the reality is you and I come from entirely polarized and opposite ends of the spectrum. That is a reality and if you can't come to terms with it then the best solution is to dance with the one who brought you and that would be the company. I've come to terms with it and I think the majority of the pilots have realized were accepting separate ops and moving on.

That is a cold hard reality that I tell even the leadership of the union. We just have to accept separate ops period.

Hope you enjoy your holiday.
 
I would encourage all pilots to participate in the forum over at cactuspilot.com. It has always been west centric and even the east ALPA supporters outnumber the east USAPA supporters. But the cite is well moderated, only LCC pilots can participate and everyone's real identity is known.

Which means that the kind of mud slinging which takes place here on a regular basis is avoided.

I think the reason some of us continue to engage here and elsewhere is to maintain some semblence of dialogue, however tenuous, with the each other - which is constructive.

USAPA made a bad decision not to erect its own pilot forum. Pilots can't help but to engage each other, whether in crew rooms or virtual crew rooms.
You're right, it's west centric. So what's the point? The slinging here is a form of release and a form of reality. Again, listening to final and binding and not being called a scab over there brings us.....WHAT? The same more civil discourse? Oh, and you know everyone's name. So what, the only reason those that hide behind there signature here is they gain great joy in skewing you.

You could have everyone on East change their minds and support the Nicolau award today and you'd still be skewered and blamed for the rest of the life of this career.

Sorry, I'd rather chew on tin foil and grate my head with a cheese grater than agree with the West anymore. I'll run on that next time and see where that gets me......forget that.

I'm coming to work and supporting the company every chance I get, union or no.

Say goodbye to them for me.
 
Oh Well. I suspect life will yet go on for all concerned.....

end_of_alpa: "When this union got started I was actually naive in thinking that we could offer some compromise with the West." Don't fret playing the part of the Lone Ranger there. I had NO idea at first just what kind of people were being dealt with there. There are indeed decent and rational folks in the west group, but they certainly don't have much overall impact on the politics and fantasies. In full fairness; the sane ones are pretty much stuck with being along for the ride as well.
I know a few myself. Unfortunately that's about it.
 
I didn't say anyone was going to Hell (necessarily). That is a matter of choice and accepting a simple gift.

My remarks pertained to the continued attack against the AWA pilots (for following the rules & guidelines defending ourselves) in an attempt at career recovery, and to shame anyone with a conscience / soul of the same. ANYONE brought up in the 40+ years would have been taught by their parents, grandparents & church that this is morally & ethically wrong (most specifically the vile RICO lawsuit & address-gate that has cost us personally well over $100K). It's not even that tough to see, frankly.

If you don't see the obvious, then perhaps you are in need of some personal introspection (IMHO). Good night & God Bless, boys.
Well, Dave seems everyone has their cross to bear. I certainly don't need to be preached to from the likes of you. I've been in the USAPA offices and I've seen how you and your two West reps do everything you can to throw a wrench in the operation.

You're trying to effectuate your scorched earth policy and attempting to infect USAPA as punishment for your legal fees incurred from the RICO suit. You know, the guy behind that sits as the VP of the union. Bet that smarts.

Oh, and defense is a two way street. You attack us with your righteous indignation and now come here as a BPR rep to preach gospel and the good family life?

I know what my family and friends have taught me too. You don't have a lock on your career any more than we do. ALPA policy is policy. ALPA is gone. DOH is the rule. Keep the lawsuit going because I believe that a merger with AMR is all the less likely to happen for at least the immediate future.

Hope you and yours have a great holiday season.

 
I didn't say anyone was going to Hell (necessarily). That is a matter of choice and accepting a simple gift.

My remarks pertained to the continued attack against the AWA pilots (for following the rules & guidelines defending ourselves) in an attempt at career recovery, and to shame anyone with a conscience / soul of the same. ANYONE brought up in the 40+ years would have been taught by their parents, grandparents & church that this is morally & ethically wrong (most specifically the vile RICO lawsuit & address-gate that has cost us personally well over $100K). It's not even that tough to see, frankly.

If you don't see the obvious, then perhaps you are in need of some personal introspection (IMHO). Good night & God Bless, boys.
BTW Dave, several of your West brothers on here call us scabs. Do the pilots in PHX all agree with that? Do you think we're scabs?

If you're talking about reality and honesty will you answer that question or are you too fearful.

Do you and the constituents think East pilots are scabs....yes or no?

Do you personally think East pilots are scabs? Yes or no (bet you can't be honest)

 
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