What's new

Dec 2012 / Jan 2013 US Pilots Labor Discussion

Status
Not open for further replies.
Please read my previous posts. I have always said an america west pilot could not get hired by a real airline, you prove that by every one of your posts. You distort the truth and information. This is a common trait amongst the inbred.

I will provide you of a recent post I made. American Pilots keep everything they brought. Bases, planes and seniority. You are trying to distort and misinform with every post you make. You are a america west pilot, do not forget it, you get Phoenix.

http://www.airlinefo...608#entry962910

For a guy that is not a pilot here. That is what you have said. Why does any of this concern you? Where is it that you work? Since you have told us you don't work for Us Airways. What fine airline do you fly for?

But more to the point these are MERGERS. They are not you keep this and I keep that. Separate ops was a fluke. Not to be repeated.

You have not refuted any of my points about the DOH list. Those are the facts and the truth. Not spin, not distortion.

As far as not being hired by other airlines. Tell that to the many guys here that worked at Eastern or even US Airways and quit to come work for AWA.
 
Tell that to the many guys here that worked at Eastern .....

Impress us all then = Were they Blue Card (rEAL) or Red Card "Eastern"? If you don't know the difference, which I strongly suspect to be the case, then shut up about "Eastern". You weren't there and have no clue at all as to WTF you're yammering on about....which is typical and thus, comes as no surprise whatsoever. I'd guess the batch lot of yours were hired post-Lorenzo. After Lorenzo showed up, and "everyone" was then hiring, well.....suffice it to say that hiring, umm..."standards" at the then tragically-being-killed-off/dying Eastern, changed more than a "little bit". 😉 You honestly wouldn't know about ANY of that part of "ancient" history though..would ya' kid? 🙂

BTW: Had you ever been anywhere around rEAL Eastern, and ever then tried to talk us into your perverted fantasies of "relative" seniority...well...you would have to have depended on some kind soul to have spared you from an on-the-spot-lynching, and downgraded the "fun" to just a "blanket party"...or perhaps tar and feathers, were they available. 😉
 
Yup. And this too:

412313_441061995913492_596894084_o.jpg

Ok, I look in on you knuckle heads from time to time.

Third from left.

Absent this SLI argument, anyone of you would have enjoyed your time with 924PS. I can assure you he is no JS.
 
I've, very recently, heard that from a few guys now. We can all disagree on things...no need to make it so personal as I had been doing.

Belated Merry Christmas and a Happy New Year to all my US coworkers.
 
Impress us all then = Were they Blue Card (rEAL) or Red Card "Eastern"? If you don't know the difference, which I strongly suspect to be the case, then shut up about "Eastern". You weren't there and have no clue at all as to WTF you're yammering on about....which is typical and thus, comes as no surprise whatsoever. I'd guess the batch lot of yours were hired post-Lorenzo. After Lorenzo showed up, and "everyone" was then hiring, well.....suffice it to say that hiring, umm..."standards" at the then tragically-being-killed-off/dying Eastern, changed more than a "little bit". 😉 You honestly wouldn't know about ANY of that part of "ancient" history though..would ya' kid? 🙂

BTW: Had you ever been anywhere around rEAL Eastern, and ever then tried to talk us into your perverted fantasies of "relative" seniority...well...you would have to have depended on some kind soul to have spared you from an on-the-spot-lynching, and downgraded the "fun" to just a "blanket party"...or perhaps tar and feathers, were they available. 😉
As usual so confident yet so wrong.

Those rEAL Eastern pilots, the guys that walked the line, are some of the biggest supporters of the Nicolau.

Is that the way they do it in your union world, physical threats to get what you want because your ideas fail.
 
To you and yours as well. So much for the Mayans....Let's live on! 🙂

Mayan stone mason standing next to Mayan priest. The stone mason holds the top of a large circular slab of engraved stone resting on the ground - a stone calender. He says to the priest:

'Sorry, I only had room to go as far as 2012'

The priest shakes his head and says 'Damn, that's sure going to f$%k with some people's mind one day'.

Happy New Year to all.
 
You wouldn't know, nor can, nor will ever know about any such things....those were conversations to be had among Pilots, but feel free to again dazzle me with your 727 bag-of-sand experiences. 🙂

Meanwhile...I'll leave you to get back to drooling your support for the "spartans", "knights" and "dire wolves" and those you so love, much more than your own coworkers of many years, out in AWA land. 🙂

Perhaps you should collaborate more directly with the west, and have them include you in their next video....Heck!...You too can then instantly become at least a "spartan", perhaps even a "knight" who's "fought with valor in many battles"....Who knows?...Maybe even a "dire wolf"!!! 😉

Looks like someone missed their daily dose of Metamucil. Drink up Pops, you'll feel better.
 
In my humble opinion doing the right thing should have been accepting the Nic back in 2007.

In the subsequent 5+ years, all USAirways pilots East and West would have earned more more money and had some of the previous benefits restored through at least one or maybe even two contracts. And been able to show UNITY in dealings with management.

Those that felt so aggrieved by the award would be upgrading or going from reserve to blockholder within a short time of what a DOH list would have presented. At much higher payrates with a better quality of life

TB,

Perhaps you might state above to next 88 hire you fly with.
This 88 hire has made a buck twelve vs 85 in last 5 years and way better QOL.
NO way any of that or better with the Nic BS !
Tis a shame you have NOT resided in majority last 5 eh.
I truly miss the sell outs shoved down our throats by the likes of you

FA
 
As usual so confident yet so wrong.

Those rEAL Eastern pilots, the guys that walked the line, are some of the biggest supporters of the Nicolau.

Is that the way they do it in your union world, physical threats to get what you want because your ideas fail.
First off, I hope everyone's holidays have been Merry so far.

As far as the rEastern pilots are concerned, they were the first to adhere to ALPA's "take one for the gipper" philosophy and look where it got them. Unemployed and hired at carriers not of their first choice and definitely not at ALPA carriers unless they started again at the bottom. Not a good option.

I can say I don't blame them for an ideal that want another group to "take one for the gipper" mentality on East pilots behalf being ALPA at the time of our merger.

The iBraniff pilots had a similar experience soon after, only many of them took a different approach. They crossed the picket lines at Continental (ALPA) and overseas, in Australia...and were welcomed with open arms. They were still considered strike breakers. [font=Times New Roman']http://articles.orlandosentinel.com/1990-02-18/business/9002162294_1_pilots-braniff-australia[/font]

I pass no judgment on these pilots. They needed to feed their families and did what they did. It happens in everyday life in other professions and it will happen here.

Take a look at Howard OShell's blog. Here are excerpts from his blog.
http://www.howardosh...ogspot.com/?m=1

"APA needs to stick to its primary purpose of protecting our AA pilot’s careers. In this context that means insisting on real, tangible seniority protections for our pilots before facilitating a merger. Let’s work to our timeline, not someone else’s and use the very real leverage of our 13.5% stake to favorably influence the makeup of the Board and senior management."

You may have all seen the Crandall tape which was posted here.

I AGREE WITH CRANDALL 100%.

APA and USAPA are "attempting" to pursue a contract solution FIRST over a seniority solution. We are better off independent as US Airways and continue to work under our present work rules with separate operations and let American pilots "experiment" with their future. We can continue to make money, even with "fiscal cliff" and let American wallow at a diminished global position so we can take assets from them in the future. History supports my position.

http://www.alpa.org/publications/Flying_The_Line_II/Flying_The_Line_II.pdf

I think all of us agree this will NOT work to secure seniority positions for the future. Only measurable and objective standards will work.

I disagree with most of our fellow union pilots that our management is against labor. I will, however, state that the interests of safety take a back seat to many economic decisions in any competative environment, especially when it comes to "ranking the value" of any labor group.

Somehow pilots believe they are above the politics AND economic reality affecting their everyday lives and can leave it when they get behind the cockpit door but I can say from experience during US Airways two bankruptcies that many of the pilots I flew with couldn't and it was a difficult time for all.

If I were kind for a day, I would establish a National "Labor Integration for Transportation Workers Board" made up of members from the FAA, NTSB, Insurance companies, ATA, CAPA, (or a union coalition), Aviation Medical Examiners (CAMA) and others to establish an AB INITIO methodology for Aviation professions, Pilots, Flight Attendants and Mechanics for logical and methodical ranking and valuation systems for each group. This is the SAFEST method, but pilots have ALWAYS liked competative risks and will fight it, as usual.

Having said that, I would otherwise have US Airways stand alone, increase code sharing and work to enhance the company position while keeping our jobs. I cannot and will not advocate the "Hostess" solution to wage increases. Let APA do that....emerging from BK will ensure that eventuailty for starters and we can continue to competatively undercut the industry with lower pay scales and increased competative growth flying where investors will invest money in us (like they're doing now) for a better return.

American is not making money now, and they CAN'T make money after emerging from BK without us. That is an economic FACT.
 
In my humble opinion doing the right thing should have been accepting the Nic back in 2007.

In the subsequent 5+ years, all USAirways pilots East and West would have earned more more money and had some of the previous benefits restored through at least one or maybe even two contracts. And been able to show UNITY in dealings with management.

Those that felt so aggrieved by the award would be upgrading or going from reserve to blockholder within a short time of what a DOH list would have presented. At much higher payrates with a better quality of life.

Merger or not, there will be no DOH SLI on this property. I truly believe this.

If USAPA really does represent ALL USAirways pilots, including the West and the new hires, they better not screw up the deal with AA because it is THE best chance for all USAirways pilots to have a career to look forward to for the duration.

Good Luck and Happy New Year.
It's a real disservice for pilots like this to take this position all the while supporting contracts that tell junior hired pilots that if you "don't take my job and let me retire in sequence I'll support YOU in any future integration by adhering to the commitments made in OUR premerger contract".

Talk about honoring YOUR agreements...oh, you didn't make it, you just benefited from it.

We will NEVER benefit from pay/work rule improvements until an INDUSTRY standard integration methodology is worked out.

Go over to http://www.airlinepilotcentral.com/ and find out how our company hires pilots. Lyle Hogg said it himself: We have no problem finding qualified pilots and don't anticipate that changing in the future.

So they not only can find the pilots they need, they hire the LOWEST qualified pilots possible before hiring much more qualified higher experienced pilots with 121 PIC time. I "speculate" that the lower time pilots will be more willing to fly to pay their flying bills and to act as a "wage buffer" against the higher qualified pilots to keep costs down.

Pull your hand out of the "toilet tank" and see how fast the hole your hand made in the water fills in.
 
Ok, I look in on you knuckle heads from time to time.

Third from left.

Absent this SLI argument, anyone of you would have enjoyed your time with 924PS. I can assure you he is no JS.
JS to retire in a few months. Good riddance. He is the most disrespected pilot here on the East and I can tell you anyone, pilot or flight attendant, who has flown with him that I have ever spoken with will attest to.

I was assaulted buy him in the terminal in 2005 and all the pax in the terminal heard him. (Assault: An assault is carried out by a threat of bodily harm coupled with an apparent, present ability to cause the harm. It is both a crime and a tort and, therefore, may result in either criminal or civil liability.) I have witnesses and reported it to the CP at the time. Out of respect for our fellow pilots my attorney advised me to let it go, which I did. Fortunately we have an overwhelming amount of Flight Crews that operate in a more professional environment.
 
First off, I hope everyone's holidays have been Merry so far.

As far as the rEastern pilots are concerned, they were the first to adhere to ALPA's "take one for the gipper" philosophy and look where it got them. Unemployed and hired at carriers not of their first choice and definitely not at ALPA carriers unless they started again at the bottom. Not a good option.

I can say I don't blame them for an ideal that want another group to "take one for the gipper" mentality on East pilots behalf being ALPA at the time of our merger.

The iBraniff pilots had a similar experience soon after, only many of them took a different approach. They crossed the picket lines at Continental (ALPA) and overseas, in Australia...and were welcomed with open arms. They were still considered strike breakers. [font=Times New Roman']http://articles.orlandosentinel.com/1990-02-18/business/9002162294_1_pilots-braniff-australia[/font]

I pass no judgment on these pilots. They needed to feed their families and did what they did. It happens in everyday life in other professions and it will happen here.

Take a look at Howard OShell's blog. Here are excerpts from his blog.
http://www.howardosh...ogspot.com/?m=1

"APA needs to stick to its primary purpose of protecting our AA pilot’s careers. In this context that means insisting on real, tangible seniority protections for our pilots before facilitating a merger. Let’s work to our timeline, not someone else’s and use the very real leverage of our 13.5% stake to favorably influence the makeup of the Board and senior management."

You may have all seen the Crandall tape which was posted here.

I AGREE WITH CRANDALL 100%.

APA and USAPA are "attempting" to pursue a contract solution FIRST over a seniority solution. We are better off independent as US Airways and continue to work under our present work rules with separate operations and let American pilots "experiment" with their future. We can continue to make money, even with "fiscal cliff" and let American wallow at a diminished global position so we can take assets from them in the future. History supports my position.

http://www.alpa.org/...The_Line_II.pdf

I think all of us agree this will NOT work to secure seniority positions for the future. Only measurable and objective standards will work.

I disagree with most of our fellow union pilots that our management is against labor. I will, however, state that the interests of safety take a back seat to many economic decisions in any competative environment, especially when it comes to "ranking the value" of any labor group.

Somehow pilots believe they are above the politics AND economic reality affecting their everyday lives and can leave it when they get behind the cockpit door but I can say from experience during US Airways two bankruptcies that many of the pilots I flew with couldn't and it was a difficult time for all.

If I were kind for a day, I would establish a National "Labor Integration for Transportation Workers Board" made up of members from the FAA, NTSB, Insurance companies, ATA, CAPA, (or a union coalition), Aviation Medical Examiners (CAMA) and others to establish an AB INITIO methodology for Aviation professions, Pilots, Flight Attendants and Mechanics for logical and methodical ranking and valuation systems for each group. This is the SAFEST method, but pilots have ALWAYS liked competative risks and will fight it, as usual.

Having said that, I would otherwise have US Airways stand alone, increase code sharing and work to enhance the company position while keeping our jobs. I cannot and will not advocate the "Hostess" solution to wage increases. Let APA do that....emerging from BK will ensure that eventuailty for starters and we can continue to competatively undercut the industry with lower pay scales and increased competative growth flying where investors will invest money in us (like they're doing now) for a better return.

American is not making money now, and they CAN'T make money after emerging from BK without us. That is an economic FACT.
How is it that you recognize that fact but ignore the fact that without the merger with AWA US Airways was not going to survive?

In a merger the benefits are shared. So far every benefit has been handed to the east by separate ops.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.

Latest posts

Back
Top