Dec 2012 / Jan 2013 US Pilots Labor Discussion

[Phoenix]

And I'm sure your a no vote Danny boy since the NIC won't be part of this, right?

Principles are principles, and integrity matters.

 

[traderjake]

And I'm sure your a no vote Danny boy since the NIC won't be part of this, right?

I don't know what's in it Old man but my guess is seniority will be addressed after a joint contract.

 

[luvthe9]

All the westies have taken shelter it seems, they must know something not to good has happened, what could it be. Hey, where is JJ (Move 2 CLT) he is usually mouthing off by now?, must be on a chicken run.

 

[luvthe9]

I don't know what's in it Old man but my guess is that is says seniority will be addressed after a joint contract.

We'll see, Danny boy.

 

[dca319]

All,

Saw below opinion and thought worth posting.
Truth is evasive around here but I think there may be some in his letter:



"There are times in everyone's life when you reach a point where decisions are made that will affect you for the rest of your life.

That time is now for the pilots at US Airways. Great decisions are being made by people that control the money and will have profound affect on our lives and careers.

US Airways and AMA do not need us to complete this deal, if one is to be made. But that does not mean we have no say in our futures. We can be docile and take whatever they are willing to give us. Those people are called "reasonable" by some. Or we can stand up for our principles and demand a fair stake in this company based on the tremendous sacrifices we have made and promises given. These people are called "hardliners" by some.

Where you stand will be the deciding question for your future. But first, let me remind you of something. Of the three groups involved, US Airways East, US Airways West and the APA, the East is the strongest of the three. We are not in bankruptcy. We do not have just a single base and a money losing system. We are the East and have been making record profits that has become the catalyst for this whole transaction. Without us, there would not be a merger....period. This merger is only possible because of our hard work and sacrifices.

The APA needs us more than we need them. If we don't merge, American will be back in bankruptcy within a couple of years because they can't sustain the contract they were offered by their management without merging with us. Their management offered them one that would work as a stand alone company and the APA voted it down. The APA knows they need us for their contract to work and that is why they are pushing a merger. If not, after their management came to them with a better deal, they would have taken it and sided with their management. Without this merger and us, they will lose and they know it.

As part of our contract, we were promised that if there was ever a change of control, we would be rewarded for our sacrifices. Now a change of control is coming and we are offered an MOU that dumps that change of control clause and instead we are offered a poultry $10,000 before taxes and that's it. That is all they are willing to give us after all we have done...after all our sacrifices and again without us none of this is possible. Will we be "reasonable" and take it or tell them come talk to us when they get serious.

The American pilots have their pensions intact and are being offered 13.5% of the new company. That's because they stayed unified, refused to take what was being offered and did not listen to the prophets of doom. They got what they got because they refused to back down, threw out their leader that was telling them they had better take what was being offered or else and stood up for themselves. That is just one issue. Fleet size and scope also must be studied because once we give that up, we really do lose control of our destinies. Just look at the number of RJ's in CLT or PHL on any given day and think where you would be if the main line was flying most of those flights.

The investors will make billions. Horton is reported to make $60 million out of this. You can bet Parker and Kirby will make that much and more no matter what. So now what will happen to the very people that made all this possible for everyone else? Will we cave in because we are told that we must be "reasonable" or will we stand up for ourselves and our families and take a tougher stand? WE CAN NOT STOP THIS TRANSACTION. WE CAN ONLY PROFIT FROM IT!

People closer to the USAPA President than I am tell me he wants a deal so badly, he will take almost anything offered. I have no way of verifying this. However, so far what we have seen is a MOU that offers us very little for our sacrifices and Gary supported it. Also, I do know that if history is any judge, we have the three East reps that will vote with the West just to get along.

Why would the West reps vote to support an inferior MOU? The reason the former AWA pilots would vote for anything has a lot to do with getting rid of USAPA and hoping that the Nic will some how be the list submitted to any seniority arbitrator. They also don't have a change of control clause in their contract. They never made the sacrifices we did. So, will the DCA Reps and PHL Rep Jamie Weidner vote with the West reps to give us a substandard MOU just to get one? Will Gary Hummel work hand in glove with our management to get this MOU through by scaring us into voting for something that does not give us some reward for all we have given?

I know we will eventually get to vote on any MOU. But if it comes to a vote on a substandard MOU, the west will vote as a block and we have enough weak kneed sisters that I think will cave in to vote for a substandard MOU. The rest of us that made these great sacrifices will be thrown under the bus by the others. This is where our BPR needs to step in. The east controls the votes if they vote with one voice.

We are now hearing from the PIC and the documents they uncovered about how our seniority issues were manipulated by the money managers and our management to keep this pilot group divided and our wages substandard. Our lawyers were no help to us then. Is this history repeating itself? When are we going to get a backbone and fight for something? Now is that time. After this, we lose the opportunity forever!

Please make your views known to your leadership and your reps. If they refuse to listen, get mad! Get damn mad and let them know that if they sell us out, they will personally pay a price. Once this fight is over, we have no one to blame if we don't get all that we deserve but we will deserve what we get if we don't fight.

WE CAN NOT STOP THIS TRANSACTION, BUT WE DESERVE TO PROFIT FROM IT LIKE EVERYONE ELSE.

Just my opinion,

BG

It's tomes like this that makes us look like paranoid idiots. In a sentence he admits we can't stop this merger and then finishes with "we deserve...". Shallower words were never spoken with all that leverage we have (sarcasm).

 

[traderjake]

Principles are principles, and integrity matters.

Did that vacuum cleaner salesman come back after you turned down his first offer?

 

[dca319]

I just got off the phone with a friend at APA. He stated, unequivocally, that it will be the Nic and APAs list in M/B. I've got a call in to the PHL reps but no one is picking up. If this is true, it looks like we're going to do Doig's dirty work when we vote this MoU in.

 

[Phoenix]

...
Today, your Board of Pilot Representatives voted unanimously to recommend the proposed MOU to you, the pilots of USAPA, for your review and ratification... If not approved by the other parties .... If the other parties approve the MOU,....

So the "other parties" wouldn't approve the MOU until after the USAPA BPR approved the MOU first... But DUI claims they don't need us to approve anything because they can proceed without our agreement. That smells like DUI pushing a snow job while whistling Dixie.

 

[Phoenix]

Did that vacuum cleaner salesman come back after you turned down his first offer?

He and his friends work for me now and they will be visiting you and your friends to make a house call. Gonna work the low hanging fruit first.

 

[traderjake]

He and his friends work for me now and they will be visiting you and your friends to make a house call. Gonna work the low hanging fruit first.

Sorry, I don't believe in vacuum cleaners.

I waiting for the technology to prove itself before I bite.

 

[EastUS1]

So the "other parties" wouldn't approve the MOU until after the USAPA BPR approved the MOU first... But DUI claims they don't need us to approve anything because they can proceed without our agreement. That smells like DUI pushing a snow job while whistling Dixie.

"That smells like DUI pushing a snow job while whistling Dixie." It sure does...nothing new to see or hear there. 😉 Without yet knowing what's in this proposal; I'll simply suggest that any and all who've felt so beaten down, and had their "expectations" so successfully "managed" towards the negative for such a long time now, should look at it with eyes full open, and carefully evaluate whatever's contained (or surrendered up) as being likely to be lived with for a goodly while, before voting one way or the other.

If this initial proposal falls short of what the APA people will get....well....all should then ask themselves if they're truly happy being in the portion that's not currently in BK, yet reporting for duty to the world's soon-to-be largest airline...as at best, only second class citizens...and why any should want to do so?

Those at the top will pocket an obscene amount of money for little more than spewing forth hot air and few phony handshakes. Not one of them flies even a single revenue passenger anywhere. What does your shaving or makeup mirror, as the case may be, tell you you're worth?

 

[luvthe9]

I just got off the phone with a friend at APA. He stated, unequivocally, that it will be the Nic and APAs list in M/B. I've got a call in to the PHL reps but no one is picking up. If this is true, it looks like we're going to do Doig's dirty work when we vote this MoU in.

I just got back from our local 7 11 and the clerk said the APA can't tell us which list to use, go figure.

 

[Claxon]

I just got off the phone with a friend at APA. He stated, unequivocally, that it will be the Nic and APAs list in M/B. I've got a call in to the PHL reps but no one is picking up. If this is true, it looks like we're going to do Doig's dirty work when we vote this MoU in.

In addition, nic4us and clear get full damages, the west gets the East pbgc and mary had a little lamb.

 

[flyer63]

"That smells like DUI pushing a snow job while whistling Dixie." It sure does...nothing new to see or hear there. 😉 Without yet knowing what's in this proposal; I'll simply suggest that any and all who've felt so beaten down, and had their "expectations" so successfully "managed" towards the negative for such a long time now, should look at it with eyes full open, and carefully evaluate whatever's contained (or surrendered up) as being likely to be lived with for a goodly while, before voting one way or the other.

If this initial proposal falls short of what the APA people will get....well....all should then ask themselves if they're truly happy being in the portion that's not currently in BK, yet reporting for duty to the world's soon-to-be largest airline...as at best, only second class citizens...and why any should want to do so?

Those at the top will pocket an obscene amount of money for little more than spewing forth hot air and few phony handshakes. Not one of them flies even a single revenue passenger anywhere. What does your shaving or makeup mirror, as the case may be, tell you you're worth?

But A320 Driver says we should listen To HOW the deal was reached and not worry so much about what is in the deal. but we should accept what our professional advisors recommend. he says he went and listened and the rest of us who just read it are a bunch of idiots. If it isn't damn good and doesn't reward us for the BS we have been thru, then it's one NO

 

[luvthe9]

If it isn't damn good and doesn't reward us for the BS we have been thru, then it's one NO

Thank You, APA gets close to 100 grand in bankruptcy and we are making money and are offered 10 grand. That's a hell no vote.