Dec 2012 / Jan 2013 US Pilots Labor Discussion

[Walmartgreeter]

The UCC's and APA's thoughts on arbitration are most important, in that order.

You are on a roll Phoenix. Spot on. This UCC is the driving force right now. They want zero uncertainty on the labor front on exit from BK. They have enough other variables with the business plan and the questionable economy to put up with any kind of labor unrest (i.e. 7 year seniority battles.)Greeter

 

[flyingskier]

No the Nicolau is not dead.

There is or was no negotiating with the east about the Nicolau. First east pilots can't be trusted to keep your deals.

Next there is no set of C&R that make DOH acceptable. So negotiating with the east is a waste of time.

Last if you think you won come take the Nicolau from us but the west is not going to just give it to you.

The Nic does not exist, period, end of story. Don't believe me? Ask your rep. USAPA's official position on seniority is a DOH list with C&R's. That will be the only list used in any future SLI.

Skier

 

[Claxon]

The west pilots think they are entitled to East pilots wide body flying, attrition and and seniority in general. Now they think they are entitled to East pilots pbgc payments.

"From a pilot that attended the BPR meeting today.

The west wasted most of the meeting with frivolous resolutions that had no chance of passing.

What were some of the resolutions?

1. We are to share our PBGC money with the west pilots.

2. They want a third of all east aircraft deliveries including 3 A330's

3. They brought up a resolution that stated that we are not to appeal the seniority integration with the APA because an agreement is an agreement. This is probably for a future DFR case. It shows how weak their case is if they still have to build one.

The west is like ants at a picnic. You can't get rid of them, all you can do is keep swatting them. We just needs to keep that swatter going.

On another topic, I don't have confirmation of this, but I was told that Gary Hummel and Steve Smyzer are heading to PHX tonight for meetings with Parker."

 

[Walmartgreeter]

Claxon pondered: "On another topic, I don't have confirmation of this, but I was told that Gary Hummel and Steve Smyzer are heading to PHX tonight for meetings with Parker."

Nope. Why would they be travelling to meet with anyone in PHX? Would that be by charter? The deal to be made is with the UCC. Parker might be the one in transit.

The game is in Dallas, as is US Management, the UCC, USAPA, and the APA.

Greeter

 

[Phoenix]

Claxon pondered: "On another topic, I don't have confirmation of this, but I was told that Gary Hummel and Steve Smyzer are heading to PHX tonight for meetings with Parker."

Nope. Why would they be travelling to meet with anyone in PHX? Would that be by charter? The deal to be made is with the UCC. Parker might be the one in transit.

The game is in Dallas, as is US Management, the UCC, USAPA, and the APA.

Greeter

And rumor is Horton is meeting with Bruce Ashby to see if he needs a new vice pres at oneworld.

 

[A320 Driver]

The west pilots think they are entitled to East pilots wide body flying, attrition and and seniority in general. Now they think they are entitled to East pilots pbgc payments.

"From a pilot that attended the BPR meeting today.

The west wasted most of the meeting with frivolous resolutions that had no chance of passing.

What were some of the resolutions?

1. We are to share our PBGC money with the west pilots.

2. They want a third of all east aircraft deliveries including 3 A330's

3. They brought up a resolution that stated that we are not to appeal the seniority integration with the APA because an agreement is an agreement. This is probably for a future DFR case. It shows how weak their case is if they still have to build one.

The west is like ants at a picnic. You can't get rid of them, all you can do is keep swatting them. We just needs to keep that swatter going.

On another topic, I don't have confirmation of this, but I was told that Gary Hummel and Steve Smyzer are heading to PHX tonight for meetings with Parker."

Total West land grab. Another attempt to break out of PHX. Sorry, you wanted it, you've got it. Parker said in the last Crew News that ALL aircraft deliveries East are replacement aircraft. It's on record kids.

I cannot believe the West reps had the gall to demand retirement benefits equal to our PBGC benefits, ESPECIALLY after they fought against East pay parity.

What little support the West had among the East pilot group just vaporized...except maybe for Traderjake.

Driver...

 

[cleardirect]

I agree, AWA didn't have the cash to buy US, but they had the management and credit. Myself and the entire business community know it, why 3000+ east pilots choose to ignore it, I don't know or care. If it makes you feel better about your career choice think what you want.

Yes OUR/YOUR airline means we share the growth. Well, at least we're supposed to. I know you'd like the hole cake and to eat it too. After all you've been horking it down ever since the merger.

Bean

Yesterday's BPR meeting proved this point.

A resolution was brought that would have shared the benefits of this merger. But predictably the east reps voted against it 8-3.

More selfish behavior. The east wanting to keep everything for themselves.

 

[cleardirect]

You want USAPA to negotiate with the Nic and then be sued by the East, but you also want USAPA to restrict itself to negotiate nothing but DOH so that it can't come up with a solution, so that arbitration will result... Which is it? Is USAPA free to negotiate or not? Might want to put in a call to Dallas so they can start, whatever it is they are allowed to do. 🙂

Arbitration would cause more delay and the result is anything but certain.... delay and uncertainty are both variables that the UCC needs to eliminate in order to make a decision. We all have to back away from our narrow, personal hopes and feelings, and take an objective look from the perspective of the folks involved who will make the decisions. It really isn't too hard to figure it out, regardless of how distasteful the obvious conclusion may personally be.

How is it that the east and west were not able to negotiate seniority. But you think that east west and APA can work that little problem out?

This is going to arbitration.

 

[cleardirect]

You are on a roll Phoenix. Spot on. This UCC is the driving force right now. They want zero uncertainty on the labor front on exit from BK. They have enough other variables with the business plan and the questionable economy to put up with any kind of labor unrest (i.e. 7 year seniority battles.)Greeter

That is correct. Federal arbitration. M/B will not allow a 7 year temper tantrum.

Negotiate for a year to get nowhere. Mediate for a yer to get nowhere.

No the path with the most certainty is a contract first. Known costs. Arbitration and a final decision with federal law behind it.

 

[cleardirect]

Total West land grab. Another attempt to break out of PHX. Sorry, you wanted it, you've got it. Parker said in the last Crew News that ALL aircraft deliveries East are replacement aircraft. It's on record kids.

I cannot believe the West reps had the gall to demand retirement benefits equal to our PBGC benefits, ESPECIALLY after they fought against East pay parity.

What little support the West had among the East pilot group just vaporized...except maybe for Traderjake.

Driver...

More FUD. If you guys had the ability to read you might understand this resolution.

But first a question?

Will ALL east pilots get a PBGC check?


Answer no.

This resolution included both east and west pilots that don't get a PBGC check.

 

[A320 Driver]

How is it that the east and west were not able to negotiate seniority. But you think that east west and APA can work that little problem out?

This is going to arbitration.

Yeah, I'm sure you guys going to the management and demanding we stay on LOA 93 made for good relations at the table.

 

[A320 Driver]

More FUD. If you guys had the ability to read you might understand this resolution.

But first a question?

Will ALL east pilots get a PBGC check?


Answer no.

This resolution included both east and west pilots that don't get a PBGC check.

And you think the company will just cough this up, or will they want it out of our pockets like they did the profit sharing?

Answer B is correct. Forget it...we don't owe you anything.

Driver...

 

[cleardirect]

You mean like the transition agreement was negotiated and ratified?

"But being “bound” by the Transition Agreement has very little meaning in the context of the present case. It is undisputed that the Transition Agreement can be modified at any time “by written agreement of [USAPA] and the [US Airways].”

In short, the transition agreement is really a one way road....the company is bound to travel at that point forward, but it is USAPA's right to negotiate within the same boundaries the company restricts it to....no bump/flush, no cost to company, etc.

You read too much into the TA.

Yesterday's BPR meeting put an end to this weak argument.

Predictably a resolution that would have done just what you say usapa can do. Negotiate a change to the TA was voted down 8-3 by the east reps.

A resolution that would have had usapa go to the company and negotiate a change to the TA modifying that ALPA policy be used and instead using usapa policy.

But usapa refuses.

So while usapa may have the right to modify the TA with agreement from the company. They don't have the ability or the courage to even attempt it.

 

[prechilill]

If this merger goes through usapa is DONE.
What a great morning!

 

[Walmartgreeter]

Cleardirect said: "Yesterday's BPR meeting put an end to this weak argument.

Predictably a resolution that would have done just what you say usapa can do. Negotiate a change to the TA was voted down 8-3 by the east reps.

A resolution that would have had usapa go to the company and negotiate a change to the TA modifying that ALPA policy be used and instead using usapa policy.

But usapa refuses.

So while usapa may have the right to modify the TA with agreement from the company. They don't have the ability or the courage to even attempt it."



No resolution to replace "ALPA" with "USAPA" policy is necessary. An NMB election almost 5 years ago took care that.

The union has already completed at least one document that changed (if it was ever ratified) the T/A, that would be the MOU.

USAPA and the Company are currently in Dallas working on potentially another change.

Stewie, you need to step in the time machine next to your crib and join the present. You sound just silly.

Greeter