Dec 2012 / Jan 2013 US Pilots Labor Discussion

[end_of_alpa]

I agree, AWA didn't have the cash to buy US, but they had the management and credit. Myself and the entire business community know it, why 3000+ east pilots choose to ignore it, I don't know or care. If it makes you feel better about your career choice think what you want.

Yes OUR/YOUR airline means we share the growth. Well, at least we're supposed to. I know you'd like the hole cake and to eat it too. After all you've been horking it down ever since the merger.

Bean

So if you agree why even make the statement?

Second, there is no appreciable growth, just attrition and that's a fact....attrition that you never would ave gotten absent a merger.

Third, Lakefield did not want to run the company and wanted to give an airline management team, even if it meant Parker, to run the operation. I didn't know the pilots at AWA "owned" management.

The labor rates (not the quality of flying, but the rates) that East pilots brought down so low in the industry made sense for us to bring our operation to the table for the merger....ask Parker. The pilots labor rates DIRCETLY contributed the the ability for the merger to make sense and WE brought, with LOA 93, that value to a combined company.

AWA didn't, your rates were already on par with LOA 93.

There are no facts that support YOUR positions and that is what EVERY East pilot knows, even those like D.E.

 

[end_of_alpa]

If this merger goes through usapa is DONE.
What a great morning!

And so is NIC because YOU have no control over USAPA.

What a great morning!

Enjoy your holiday.

 

[end_of_alpa]

Yesterday's BPR meeting put an end to this weak argument.

Predictably a resolution that would have done just what you say usapa can do. Negotiate a change to the TA was voted down 8-3 by the east reps.

A resolution that would have had usapa go to the company and negotiate a change to the TA modifying that ALPA policy be used and instead using usapa policy.

But usapa refuses.

So while usapa may have the right to modify the TA with agreement from the company. They don't have the ability or the courage to even attempt it.

Post the resolution.

 

[EastUS1]

The west pilots think they are entitled to East pilots wide body flying, attrition and and seniority in general. Now they think they are entitled to East pilots pbgc payments.
What were some of the resolutions?

1. We are to share our PBGC money with the west pilots.

Seriously? Oh well...I guess that seems "reasonable", especially after five plus years of hearing "You can live on LOA93 forever!" I'm only surprised that an additional resolution wasn't proposed that would supply them with a daily issue of free milk and cookies, and their preferred flavors of lollipops to be hand delivered to each of them, first thing every morning....One simply could never make this kind of stuff up. 🙂

 

[Bill Brasky]

It's obvious that they think that the East guys are as stupid and gullible as the westies. Pretty bad assumption.

 

[EastUS1]

The game is in Dallas, as is US Management, the UCC, USAPA, and the APA.

Indeed sir, and I'm not aware of there being any special seat/throne reserved for the mighty "Army" of leonidas in Dallas.

 

[prechilill]

The Nic does not exist, period, end of story. Don't believe me? Ask your rep. USAPA's official position on seniority is a DOH list with C&R's. That will be the only list used in any future SLI.

Skier

Lol... The Nic doesn't exist... Let's revisit this post a year from now when we are all APA members in good standing.

 

[EastUS1]

No resolution to replace "ALPA" with "USAPA" policy is necessary. An NMB election almost 5 years ago took care that.

Stewie, you need to step in the time machine next to your crib and join the present. You sound just silly.

Well put Greeter.

 

[prechilill]

And so is NIC because YOU have no control over USAPA.

What a great morning!

Enjoy your holiday.

So what list is already accepted by the company??
Jeez you guys are delusional Jamie

 

[EastUS1]

Lol... The Nic doesn't exist... Let's revisit this post a year from now when we are all APA members in good standing.

OK. While we're going down memory lane here, and heading once more towards Projection Junction; let's revisit your equally amusing prophecy from Dec 2007 = "Ho Ho Ho! Saint nic is coming to town!", shall we? 😉

prechilill: "Jeez you guys are delusional..." No additional comment seems needed.

 

[EastUS1]

What were some of the resolutions?

1. We are to share our PBGC money with the west pilots.

Having again read this...well...somebody, somewhere...please tell me that this was just a joke, and that even west reps couldn't come up with anything so utterly assinine?...?

 

[nic4us]

Indeed sir, and I'm not aware of there being any special seat/throne reserved for the mighty "Army" of leonidas in Dallas.

Think again!

Now on to relevant subject....as Clear pointed out the retirement resolution did not ask for any sharing of east benefits..it asked for additional benefits for all LCC pilots not covered by the PBCG in an amount equal to the PBCG benefit.

The other West resolutions were merely asking for TA compliance.


On the topic of seniority integration with AMR. Usapa and the APA have exactly one option for a DOH list construction. I brought this up before years ago regarding usapa, but of course is was summarily dismissed because usapa's intent is to steal from the West, not to construct a legitimate SLI integration. But, I will post it once again.

Create a national seniority list. take the data from the FAA on what date every pilot in the country obtained their commercial liscence, for those on the same date arrange by age. Use a similar method for military pilots when they graduated flight school. then take the national seniority list and arrange the pilots at a given company according to that list, with conditions and restrictions pertinent to that company. for example, a one year probationary period, certain amounts of flight hours at that company before eligible for captain, etc...

Failing treating all pilots fairly, and doing something like a national seniority list, in our circumstance it will be the Nic merged with the APA list, and frankly , that is fair also, even though the LCC pilots are going to be at a great disadvantage because of the BS usapa has pulled for the last 4 years.

 

[nic4us]

Having again read this...well...somebody, somewhere...please tell me that this was just a joke, and that even west reps couldn't come up with anything so utterly assinine?...?

It is not a joke...it is a lie!

 

[EastUS1]

Think again!

Now on to relevant subject....as Clear pointed out the retirement resolution did not ask for any sharing of east benefits..it asked for additional benefits for all LCC pilots not covered by the PBCG in an amount equal to the PBCG benefit.

Oh! Ok then, umm...Did I miss the equally "reasonable" west resolution, proposing that east pilots receive back pay for those that endured LOA93's effects, versus the "glorious" west contract? 😉 ...Or, as is the standard case here; do you expect all the upside, without ANY of the sacrifices/losses that enabled what little benefits that did survive? No need to fumble around with that last, as it's purely a rhetorical question.

 

[nic4us]

Lol... The Nic doesn't exist... Let's revisit this post a year from now when we are all APA members in good standing.

No need to wait a year.

Let's just ask the company in front of a federal judge what their opinion is of the Nic and the TA!

Oh, wait a second...we already have that....the TA is the status quo at LCC, and the NIC is the accepted system seniority list as per the TA and the company's "neutrality"!