Dec 2012 / Jan 2013 US Pilots Labor Discussion

[Metroyet]

fergie and AOL to APA. "We will pull all the former america west assets off the table unless we get full widebody protection and.............. or no PHX base for you, then if you make us mad we will, er, ...............

LOSERS!

Wow. United and Jetz unmitigated success today has spun you through the roof. Calm down. 43% is a huge increase but when you remember that you guys Walked away from the joint contract whereby 93% all the money was going into your pocket. It doesn't seem to big now does it? See, 93 is a BIGGER number than 43...that's to help MM get the picture.

 

[cleardirect]

Nobody is trying or wants to "give away seniority." Thus you must have not a clue who I am. I can back up my principals on seniority with actions, over many years. And I never felt the need to vent and threaten others they would not get ride to work over petty politics. You owe an apology, though I could care less who you give it to.I have never met one, not a single pilot on the East willing to give up seniority. I encounter many here on this forum that question the value of the fight that has been waged, and I understand their desire to get their family paid. But you take the cake today. I cut everyone some slack, we all have off days. I have no clue who you are. But you, Eric Ferguson, Trader, and any pilot on our seniority list will always, always be welcome in my cockpit to get to work and back.Chip Munn is not a part of the recall group. Nobody on the East list wants to "give away" seniority. Stop it. Stop the lies. If you post those lies again, you will be called out by me accordingly.Greeter.

You notice that when ever the Cleary crowd gets called out for their failures they have two plays. Anyone that slightly questions the leadership of the Cleary clowns they go immediately to the seniority issue.

That somehow luv and the other are the only ones that are willing to fight to the death for DOH and anyone that question their ability to lead on any other issue gets slammed with the "you want to give away seniority"

Think back to the moving into the new office. Because some members of the BPR were not willing to go along with the much more expensive Cleary pick of offices he attacked with since they were opposed to mikes choice of offices therefore you were against the union and therefore you must be against DOH.

The Cleary clowns have two plays whenever you point out their failures. First you are against DOH. Second it must be CM fault or if CM is in favor of it, it must be bad for usapa. Therefore it is against DOH.

 

[A320 Driver]

You notice that when ever the Cleary crowd gets called out for their failures they have two plays. Anyone that slightly questions the leadership of the Cleary clowns they go immediately to the seniority issue.

That somehow luv and the other are the only ones that are willing to fight to the death for DOH and anyone that question their ability to lead on any other issue gets slammed with the "you want to give away seniority"

Think back to the moving into the new office. Because some members of the BPR were not willing to go along with the much more expensive Cleary pick of offices he attacked with since they were opposed to mikes choice of offices therefore you were against the union and therefore you must be against DOH.

The Cleary clowns have two plays whenever you point out their failures. First you are against DOH. Second it must be CM fault or if CM is in favor of it, it must be bad for usapa. Therefore it is against DOH.

Put the whole damn mess under M/B and let the chips fall. The NIC is a bust and so is straight DOH.

Driver...

 

[EastUS1]

Put the whole damn mess under M/B and let the chips fall. The NIC is a bust and so is straight DOH.

Driver...

Having no better crystal ball than anyone else....I suspect that'll be the end result here = 2 lists from US and whatever APA's is to be dumped into arbitration's magic little cauldron, with the real, rather than west-fantasized force of federal law then making previous issues pretty much moot. I could certainly be wrong, but that'd seemingly make for the easiest legal "out" for any concerned with a group's potential litigation....if any serious concern for that even exists.

 

[EastUS1]

fergie and AOL to APA. "We will pull all the former america west assets off the table unless we get full widebody protection and.............. or no PHX base for you, then if you make us mad we will, er, ...............

LOSERS!

You neglected the part where the 2004 "heroic spartan/Supreme Commander" newhire tells the APA that the west, being the awesomely powerful people that they are, are personally "saving" them all, that the APA furloughs are all insignificant scum, and that all at American should be happy just to have a job. 😉 I'd think the folks at APA could use a good joke during these trying times.

 

[EastUS1]

It will all be over very soon.

So then; what's your prediction(s) as to how all this will end, and what timetable constitutes "very soon"....? The "righteous certainty" of the west and the "accuracy" of your group's predictions have always been good for some hearty laughs. 😉

 

[cleardirect]

Having no better crystal ball than anyone else....I suspect that'll be the end result here = 2 lists from US and whatever APA's is to be dumped into arbitration's magic little cauldron, with the real, rather than west-fantasized force of federal law then making previous issues pretty much moot. I could certainly be wrong, but that'd seemingly make for the easiest legal "out" for any concerned with a group's potential litigation....if any serious concern for that even exists.

The Nicolau is not just going to magically go away.

The east pilots are not going to get your do over.

A joint contract implements the Nicolau. We now have a fully completed merger going into the next merger with American. There will be 2 lists. The Nicolau for us air and the American list. That is the easiest legal way out. Anything other than the Nicolau places the company and usapa and the APA on dangerous ground.

Just how legally did the west lose our right to the Nicolau in your fantasy?

Unless you really want to go Into the merger with loa 93 against the new American contract.

Ask Roland Wilder how that would work out for you. East reserve captains making what line holding west FO's make. Arrange the list list you east pilots wanted with trump, by W2. How much did you make last year?

Do you really want a list that has all of the American WB pilots first, American captains, west captains, some east captains and west fo's, the rest of the east captains and finally the east fo's? It is federal arbitration anything could happen.

It is not going to be DOH or DOB lime you want.

 

[cleardirect]

Put the whole damn mess under M/B and let the chips fall. The NIC is a bust and so is straight DOH.

Driver...

How exactly do you take away the west legal rights under your little scheme?

The only thing that is a bust is east leadership and usapa.

 

[EastUS1]

The Nicolau is not just going to magically go away.

Well...faith's a wonderful thing. I guess we'll all have to wait and see.

 

[EastUS1]

How exactly do you take away the west legal rights under your little scheme?

I've little doubt the following observation will do less than utterly astonish you, but your group's not the only one with legal rights. 😉

 

[A320 Driver]

How exactly do you take away the west legal rights under your little scheme?

The only thing that is a bust is east leadership and usapa.

It's not a scheme. It is about the only reasonable solution. You haven't been able to enforce your so called "legal rights" in the last 3 court appearances (counting SCOTUS). I'd be willing to bet that if you put it all under M/B with a three way, no court in it's right mind would care to wade into it.

Just my opinion.

Driver...

 

[EastUS1]

It's not a scheme. It is about the only reasonable solution. You haven't been able to enforce your so called "legal rights" in the last 3 court appearances (counting SCOTUS). I'd be willing to bet that if you put it all under M/B with a three way, no court in it's right mind would care to wade into it.

Just my opinion.

Driver...

Pretty much my thoughts as well. We'll all see how it plays out over time.

 

[Phoenix]

Nobody is trying or wants to "give away seniority." Thus you must have not a clue who I am. I can back up my principals on seniority with actions, over many years. And I never felt the need to vent and threaten others they would not get ride to work over petty politics. You owe an apology, though I could care less who you give it to.I have never met one, not a single pilot on the East willing to give up seniority. I encounter many here on this forum that question the value of the fight that has been waged, and I understand their desire to get their family paid. But you take the cake today. I cut everyone some slack, we all have off days. I have no clue who you are. But you, Eric Ferguson, Trader, and any pilot on our seniority list will always, always be welcome in my cockpit to get to work and back.Chip Munn is not a part of the recall group. Nobody on the East list wants to "give away" seniority. Stop it. Stop the lies. If you post those lies again, you will be called out by me accordingly.Greeter.

I really have no idea what the recall hopefulls want to do, or what they will put on the table to reach whatever their goals are.

But more importantly, due to the NDA, the ones hoping to be the new and improved leaders have no way of convincing the voters that they posses any goals or means that are different or better than what is already being done in Dallas. The guys that want to be the new reps might be some swell guys, but ever since the creation of USAPA there has never been a time more impossible to prove they will do what USAPA isn't. Even if they had insiders to the NDA telling them exactly what is going on, they still can't explain how they must be inserted into the mix to ensure a good outcome. The NDA hamstrings them to nothing but generalies and platitudes, at best. Wrong time wrong place, for them. IMHO.

 

[Phoenix]

It's not a scheme. It is about the only reasonable solution. You haven't been able to enforce your so called "legal rights" in the last 3 court appearances (counting SCOTUS). I'd be willing to bet that if you put it all under M/B with a three way, no court in it's right mind would care to wade into it.

Just my opinion.

Driver...

Pretty much my thoughts as well. We'll all see how it plays out over time.

Agree that MB three way would result in best protection from a DFR suit, for everyone involved. Wonder though which is a greater risk to the pilots, another DFR try or continued SLI delay and opportunity for continued squables...

Nic was done five years ago, caused unimaginable discord and disputes, and failed to account for so many unforeseen factors... four bases have closed, West furloughs, massive hiring on the East, new planes coming East but not West, 25% of East routes now being flown by the West, a merger with AA, age 65 was implemented, horribly unequal perminent bid movement, (and the biggest unfairness.. PBGC money hasn't been split fairly to all pilots ).. the new merger was entirely unforeseen, the world is differnt. Do USAPA and APA have a legitimate responsablitly to account for what is going on in this merger and work out a SLI as part of the MOU in Dallas? Or should they punt to an arbitrator, like ALPA?

 

[Phoenix]

It's not a scheme. It is about the only reasonable solution. You haven't been able to enforce your so called "legal rights" in the last 3 court appearances (counting SCOTUS). I'd be willing to bet that if you put it all under M/B with a three way, no court in it's right mind would care to wade into it.

Just my opinion.

Driver...

No court in their right mind would care to Wake into it either.