Dec 2012 / Jan 2013 US Pilots Labor Discussion

[Piedmont1984]

Driver

Good post. I remember the LEC chairman in PIT who took his lump sum and retired to KY. One of the hardliners who ignored the warning bells.

Some are now accusing Hummel of being in management's pocket. If that's the case then it can be argued that Cleary was in management's cross hairs.

I absolutely agree that the pilots must read and understand anything they are expected to sign off on. This will require time to scrutinize, discuss, debate and decide.

But something tells me we are being set up for a 'slam dunk approach'.

'84

 

[Graceson]

Do yourselves a favor...take this with a grain of salt. This group, like so many others, think they know best. I don't give a damn what they think. I want to read the facts, decide for myself, and vote accordingly. These groups exist to front an agenda and to feed their anger. Well, I won't play that game. Lots of bad things happened to our pension, but they happened a LONG time before it went to court. It happened with the knowledge and support of some of our union officials because, in the end, they got theirs and left the rest of us swinging. So who was the bad guy? The lawyer that spoke for the company or the union officials that ignored the alarms bells and made their own deal? Think about it.

The MOU is another example. Every document is up for interpretation. But to truly understand it, you have to read it, not have some idiot with an agenda read the parts of it he/she wants so they can manipulate you into a mindset not your own. Or worse, tell you not to read it and just vote no because of what happened "before".

Every pilot here has a stake in what happens going forward. You cannot look forward and backwards at the same time. I am not asking that you take things for face value. Read the documents...ask the questions...get the WHOLE truth before you make a decision. And for goodness sake, distance yourselves from these groups that tell you only what they want you to hear. Balance...that is how you know the difference. The NC and our lawyers and our negotiator gave the good AND the bad and asked us to weigh the benefits vs. the the disadvantages. THAT is the way to make an informed decision.

Just my thoughts...Merry Christmas to all !!!

Driver...

"Don't look forward, don't look back... take everything at face value."

Why? Because the words are in print. Honestly, you wouldn't consider technicals, fundamentals, sentiment, research, validation, and confirmation.

Imagine history's notable figures heeding such wisdome. ...The most dangerous words ever written.

 

[nycbusdriver]

I never voted for ANYTHING ALPA ever "allowed" me to, disagreed with the arbitration process of our seniority (USAir v AWA), I will NEVER, vote for any MOU incorporating the NIC in any contract, screw a merger with AMR, they will not possibly offer me enough money to convince me that a "probationary new hire" should be "senior" to me.

I have taken it so far up my "professional" ass, after the first 4 or 5 mergers, that I just REALLY don't care how this turns out! I don't have many more years left and really don't give a crap about all you "youngsters", The fences associated with any merger scenario, will ensure that it will have ZERO effect on my sorry "lot in life".

So screw you; you know,...... one of the really great things about being an "old fart" is that it's not my problem......it's yours!

Amen, brother. I'm right there with you, and Nicolau even left me unscathed!

 

[nycbusdriver]

I couldn't locate the Legitimate Union Objective that is required to deviate from the Nic. What was it again exactly?

The LUO is intentionally being kept under wraps. You will find out what it is ONLY after you have pulled several more million dollars out of your pockets to line those of your attorneys. See you in court, loser.

 

[MUTATIS MUTANDIS]

Driver

Good post. I remember the LEC chairman in PIT who took his lump sum and retired to KY. One of the hardliners who ignored the warning bells.

Some are now accusing Hummel of being in management's pocket. If that's the case then it can be argued that Cleary was in management's cross hairs.

I absolutely agree that the pilots must read and understand anything they are expected to sign off on. This will require time to scrutinize, discuss, debate and decide.

But something tells me we are being set up for a 'slam dunk approach'.

'84

Ageed!

 

[nycbusdriver]

Hummel's message yesterday said the NDA would continue until mid January, but the AA board meeting is Jan 9th and the BPR won't consider the issue till the new year.

If the merger is not announced before the the NDA expires, the NDA deadline will be extended. Count on it.

 

[A320 Driver]

But something tells me we are being set up for a 'slam dunk approach'.

'84

That is entirely possible. One thing to keep in mind though...the company didn't ask for a MOU, USAPA did.

Driver...

 

[end_of_alpa]

Do yourselves a favor...take this with a grain of salt. This group, like so many others, think they know best. I don't give a damn what they think. I want to read the facts, decide for myself, and vote accordingly. These groups exist to front an agenda and to feed their anger. Well, I won't play that game. Lots of bad things happened to our pension, but they happened a LONG time before it went to court. It happened with the knowledge and support of some of our union officials because, in the end, they got theirs and left the rest of us swinging. So who was the bad guy? The lawyer that spoke for the company or the union officials that ignored the alarms bells and made their own deal? Think about it.

The MOU is another example. Every document is up for interpretation. But to truly understand it, you have to read it, not have some idiot with an agenda read the parts of it he/she wants so they can manipulate you into a mindset not your own. Or worse, tell you not to read it and just vote no because of what happened "before".

Every pilot here has a stake in what happens going forward. You cannot look forward and backwards at the same time. I am not asking that you take things for face value. Read the documents...ask the questions...get the WHOLE truth before you make a decision. And for goodness sake, distance yourselves from these groups that tell you only what they want you to hear. Balance...that is how you know the difference. The NC and our lawyers and our negotiator gave the good AND the bad and asked us to weigh the benefits vs. the the disadvantages. THAT is the way to make an informed decision.

Just my thoughts...Merry Christmas to all !!!

Driver...

I agree with the spirit of your post. I have always believed that the overwhelming majority of our group has read most of the information of both the pros and the cons. I cannot say myself nor anyone else can with certainty what TRUTH is exactly, but that to place as many of the facts before the "collective" (using that term here loosely) and the majority of the group votes their choice. But as I've always pointed out, the choice ultimately boils down to a binary decision.

Unfortunately there are always those that feel that the group should NOT be enabled with a binary choice and wish to impose their wishes as a minority and life continues. I'm not pointing the finger at West pilots though that seems the most obvious example, but there were those in the second bankruptcy that felt differently as a minority and like to point fingers at the past.

To be sure, factions both East and West, North and South, Left and Right, will argue their positions but in the end without democracy ther is always anarchy waiting in the wings and the choice will eventually be made with or without the use of knowledge and choice.

In Gary and Steve's case, is it Leadership or Dictatorship? I believe it's the latter and we will all suffer the consequences of it.

Enjoy the holiday's!

 

[end_of_alpa]

"Don't look forward, don't look back... take everything at face value."

Why? Because the words are in print. Honestly, you wouldn't consider technicals, fundamentals, sentiment, research, validation, and confirmation.

Imagine history's notable figures heeding such wisdome. ...The most dangerous words ever written.

I would definitely say the volant model (what you seem to be alluding to here) is not a tool we heed and utilize outside of the Airline SOP's, that's for sure.

Enjoy the Holidays!

 

[Graceson]

I would definitely say the volant model (what you seem to be alluding to here) is not a tool we heed and utilize outside of the Airline SOP's, that's for sure.

Enjoy the Holidays!

Actually, i misread the post. My bad! In further review, I've upgraded it to cautiously sage.

Happy holidays!

 

[lynyrdskynyrd]

Mr. B L

So your funding the nic, but you do not "gotta have it" , but you want it, but you do not need it. Stick to producing bad videos with auxier.

I provided a link to the army of lyingitas below, the last update was November 1st, keep sending them checks if you should, but if you do not think...........;;;;;;;;'''.

http://www.cactuspilot.com/

What I am currently funding is a defense against a larger group trying to force down my throat what it deems fair. I could have, and can now, personally live with different outcomes than the Nic, and am prepared for that. Nothing is guaranteed in this life.

All I was trying to say by 'not having to have the nic' is that the often stated east reason of wanting the nic to 'jump ahead' or 'disrespect years of service' or such is not my motivation. Although I couldn't care less what you beleive.

 

[A320 Driver]

In Gary and Steve's case, is it Leadership or Dictatorship? I believe it's the latter and we will all suffer the consequences of it.

Call them, write them, go to see them. They are your elected representitives. If they refuse to communicate with you, then your suspicians are correct. If they will engage you in a discussion of your concerns, that's leadership.

Give it a try and let me know how it turns out.

Driver...

 

[wopr21]

One would be insane to base any sound decision on the information placed on this board. I treat it as entertainment value only.

Cheers

 

[Piedmont1984]

One would be insane to base any sound decision on the information placed on this board. I treat it as entertainment value only.

Cheers

Many constructive and informative discussions have taken place in crew rooms over the years. This board is just like a crew room, except the pilots (and uninvited non-pilots who wander in) are anonymous, they routinely insult each other and act like bratty children, there's no one to tell us to behave and the beverage of choice is usually alcoholic rather than caffeinated.

 

[fatherabraham]

West, Mr Kirby explaining the loss of your lottery ticket.

http://aviationblog.dallasnews.com/2012/05/kirby-we-expect-an-amr-us-airw.html/

Hmmm, Boo Boo & his Spartans haven't corrected Mr Kirby in 7 months since article.



“That contract will be in place and so there will be a joint contract in place. And then more than likely the seniority issue will go through a process and ultimately get to arbitration. But because we will already have a joint contract in place, that arbitration will be binding. It will just get implemented.

“In the US Airways – America West case, it went to binding arbitration but there was a requirement as part of that that the two unions negotiate a joint contract with the company, which wasn’t done yet.

“And because it wasn’t done yet, the side that didn’t like it could prevent a joint contract from getting done. And because of that, the seniority integration never happened.

“In this case, there’ll be a joint contract in advance, and the seniority integration will happen.

“I’m encouraged that USAPA and APA, the two respective unions, are working well together and working jointly with the company. So I am optimistic that this ironically solves the largest hangover from the US Airways – America West transaction.”


FA