Dec 2012 / Jan 2013 US Pilots Labor Discussion

[nevergiveup]

Hmmm, Boo Boo & his Spartans haven't corrected Mr Kirby in 7 months since article.



“That contract will be in place and so there will be a joint contract in place. And then more than likely the seniority issue will go through a process and ultimately get to arbitration. But because we will already have a joint contract in place, that arbitration will be binding. It will just get implemented.

“In the US Airways – America West case, it went to binding arbitration but there was a requirement as part of that that the two unions negotiate a joint contract with the company, which wasn’t done yet.

“And because it wasn’t done yet, the side that didn’t like it could prevent a joint contract from getting done. And because of that, the seniority integration never happened.

“In this case, there’ll be a joint contract in advance, and the seniority integration will happen.

“I’m encouraged that USAPA and APA, the two respective unions, are working well together and working jointly with the company. So I am optimistic that this ironically solves the largest hangover from the US Airways – America West transaction.”


FA

A joint contract or a negotiated joint contract as required? I don't believe one negotiated by another union would fill that requirement.

 

[Metroyet]

A joint contract or a negotiated joint contract as required? I don't believe one negotiated by another union would fill that requirement.

There isn't going to be "Another union" you'll all be APA. They will get you what USAPA will never be able to. A contract. Everywhere it says USAPA, will now say APA if this goes thru. APA will inherit every letter of every agreement from the prior bargaining agent...just like USAPA Did from ALPA.

 

[lynyrdskynyrd]

....and the beverage of choice is usually alcoholic rather than caffeinated.

Maybe even both. Red bull and Vodka comes to mind, although once was enough for me. That was nasty.

 

[nevergiveup]

There isn't going to be "Another union" you'll all be APA. They will get you what USAPA will never be able to. A contract. Everywhere it says USAPA, will now say APA if this goes thru. APA will inherit every letter of every agreement from the prior bargaining agent...just like USAPA Did from ALPA.

But will US Airways still be around? Or can you cross that out and replace it with American? I don't think so. Those waters are far too muddy to fish! APA already has a contract, just recently agreed upon. I see no new contracts, only an MOU, which can or cannot be viewed as a contract.(but not to the readers discretion!) I guess APA would be free to use whatever list they wanted, as long as it has a LUP.

 

[Move2CLT]

I never voted for ANYTHING ALPA ever "allowed" me to, disagreed with the arbitration process of our seniority (USAir v AWA), I will NEVER, vote for any MOU incorporating the NIC in any contract, screw a merger with AMR, they will not possibly offer me enough money to convince me that a "probationary new hire" should be "senior" to me.

I have taken it so far up my "professional" ass, after the first 4 or 5 mergers, that I just REALLY don't care how this turns out! I don't have many more years left and really don't give a crap about all you "youngsters", The fences associated with any merger scenario, will ensure that it will have ZERO effect on my sorry "lot in life".

So screw you; you know,...... one of the really great things about being an "old fart" is that it's not my problem......it's yours!

The "powers that be" are going to make A LOT of money off of this merger, us airplane drivers, not so much.

So there you have it, get what you can (on my back) and enjoy. I will be the, in base, (unless you manage to "steal my job") sitting on my ass, as an over 60 Intl F/O, being paid $BIG BUCKS per/hr to watch you, jerk each other off. ENJOY!

seajay

I'm sure that's going to keep Doug up at night. Oh wait, no it won't.

The train is going to leave with or without you suckah.

 

[luvthe9]

.

The train is going to leave with or without you suckah.

And you JJ are riding in the caboose, be sure to bring a bucket of KFC along. sit back and enjoy the ride suckah.

 

[Claxon]

And you JJ are riding in the caboose, be sure to bring a bucket of KFC along. sit back and enjoy the ride suckah.

JJ is not even in the caboose. He is on the tracks. About to get run over by the USAPA train. Again. St. Nick is riding a train loaded with coal, headed to PHX. He has been delivering coal on the Nicolau Express for seven years now.

 

[Walmartgreeter]

There isn't going to be "Another union" you'll all be APA. They will get you what USAPA will never be able to. A contract. Everywhere it says USAPA, will now say APA if this goes thru. APA will inherit every letter of every agreement from the prior bargaining agent...just like USAPA Did from ALPA.

Thank you for that Christmas gift, the gift that you FINALLY understand what happened when USAPA became your bargaining agent. A long road to get you to understand the process. IF and WHEN APA becomes our bargaining agent, all you say will (continue to) be true. Only then. What you threaten has already happened to you. Finally, you get it.Greeter

 

[Move2CLT]

And you JJ are riding in the caboose, be sure to bring a bucket of KFC along. sit back and enjoy the ride suckah.

You're going to hate next year you DH.

Now GFY.

 

[Move2CLT]

JJ is not even in the caboose. He is on the tracks. About to get run over by the USAPA train. Again. St. Nick is riding a train loaded with coal, headed to PHX. He has been delivering coal on the Nicolau Express for seven years now.

F-ing retard.

 

[luvthe9]

F-ing retard.

How to Deal with a Foul Mouthed Child......http://child-behavior-discipline.knoji.com/how-to-deal-with-a-foul-mouthed-child/ Mr. and Mrs. J obviously did not read this.

 

[Metroyet]

Thank you for that Christmas gift, the gift that you FINALLY understand what happened when USAPA became your bargaining agent. A long road to get you to understand the process. IF and WHEN APA becomes our bargaining agent, all you say will (continue to) be true. Only then. What you threaten has already happened to you. Finally, you get it.Greeter

I've had it from day 1 amigo. So, it logically follows then that you COMPLETELY understand that USAPA inherited the TA in its entirety right. That includes the Nic. Time passage is irrelevant. You also COMPLETELY understand USAPA has the VERY SAME DFR to the West pilots as ALPA did correct? ALPA was just as free as USAPA to abandon the Nic award PROVIDED a Legitimate Union Purpose existed to do so right?

ALPA did their level best to sell the AMW pilots down the river to keep the dues money flowing. Only problem...THERE WAS NO LUP THAT EVEN REMOTELY ALLOWED ALPA TO DISREGARD THE ARBITRATION. They would have done so in a heartbeat if they could have. Now that we agree that USAPA is 100% ALPA JUST LIKE APA WILL BE 100% USAPA if the merger moves fwd, you fully understand that USAPA, LIKE ALPA, MUST HAVE AN LUP TO DISREGARD THE NIC. RIGHT? Silver exactly spelled it out for you.

ALPA didn't have one, (despite millions of reasons to find one) USAPA was crushed by a Jury once already, the Company hasn't indicated even slightly that they're going to take on the OBVIOUS liability by allowing USAPA to break the law. If you're planning to say that temper tantrums and self hostage taking are all the LUP USAPA needs, spare me. All shot down before. In court. What else you got?

A self inflicted endless stalemate. That's what. And it's costing every "member" dearly. USAPA is eyeballs deep in the mud and helpless. Out of Airspeed, Altitude and ideas. Give one example that suggests otherwise...and no, proof of a self inflicted stalemate isn't actual proof of effectiveness...at least not in the sense a sane unionist would consider positive.

APA will inherit all of this as well...as I'm sure you understand fully,(at least you CLAIM to). You also must certainly understand that APA doesn't give a damn about the East pilots...certainly not enough to expose themselves to the VERY SAME OBVIOUS LIABILITY the company refuses to. USAPA dies, the Nic is certified. GAME OVER.

Hummel knows all of this, but then again, apparently so do you. Glad we're on the same page.

Merry Christmas.

 

[Move2CLT]

How to Deal with a Foul Mouthed Child......http://child-behavior-discipline.knoji.com/how-to-deal-with-a-foul-mouthed-child/ Mr. and Mrs. J obviously did not read this.

Like I said....

 

[Move2CLT]

Drink this in you east idiots:


First, APA is going to have a choice to make early on - to file for Single Carrier or not. Under the Term Sheet they signed with Parker, the APA is required to file with the NMB no later than six months after the POR. Figure 2-4 months for the NMB investigation, and then APA will be the bargaining agent. Any timeline for SLI will be quite a ways after Single Carrier. (UAL/CAL are just now getting to the SLI.)

Second, the Company will be a party to any SLI arbitration under M/B, and they've said in legal filings in more than one venue that the only legal seniority list they have is the Nicolau. The Company filed the Dec Action asking what I suppose they thought to be an innocuous question, but wound up getting a federal judge saying very clearly that they are not entitled to any immunity from the West class so they had best be mindful of what they eventually agree to with USAPA in Section 6.

Third, if USAPA is defunct, I think a simple risk-reward analysis tells us everything we need to know concerning the use or non-use of the Nicolau. Who benefits? The East...about 3000 pilots out of what, 13,000? What is the risk? Clearly, an injunction filed in federal court by the West class to answer the DFR question. I don't know how a federal judge would rule with regards to ripeness, but I can tell you that the ripeness argument with an impending M/B arbitration takes on many substantive dimensions which would take a while for a court to vet. Addingtion was filed, tried, and appealed in the context of Section 6 negotiations. Only the federal courts are empowered to decide whether a union's proposal is a legitimate union objective - not arbitrators. So, while our case was grinding along in federal court, the only bargaining agent (APA) would be muddling along, unable to complete the pilot integration and having to deal with 35% of the pilots working at substantially lower wages than their operation. That is a scenario that APA has never tolerated, even when the smaller operation was only a couple of hundred pilots (Reno). I highly doubt they will tolerate just standing by while an issue which is really irrelevant to the reAAl AAmerican pilots plays out in court.

Fourth, ripeness is a double edged sword for everybody. For the West it would have been nice to not have the inane Tashima ruling, but on the other hand that decision realistically didn't change what would have happened had Judge Bybee's dissent been the majority opinion. USAPA has had one goal which is to delay, and they would have executed on that irrespective of the Ninth. The problem for Company and also the APA is that according to Judge Silver, neither can seek a judicial declaration as to what alternative is a Legitimate Union Purpose. USAPA argued in the Dec Action that the Addington rule applied, and Judge Silver reluctantly agreed with them. But that's taken how long so far? Two years and five months, and we still have the appeal to go which will be another 18 months at least (yes, I'm quite confident the company will appeal; they have to).

So, in the above context, does anyone really worry about DOH at this point? I don't.

 

[Move2CLT]

Like I said, your reps already know Nic is it.