Do-littles' Not Affected By Sellout

Hackman

Veteran
Sep 30, 2003
3,997
898
On 12/20/04, a Dallas Morning News article titled "Airline Industry's Rough Ride May Have Toppled Labor Groups" quoted Do-little in his legendary and infamous twu fog.

You must register and pay for articles, so I have no link to the whole article.

Here is some exerps of the twu ATD leaders delusions along with some so called experts:

Jim little, head of the air transport division for the Transport Workers Union, which represents 30,000 ground workers at American Airlines Inc., disputed the notion of airline labor in an industrywide crisis.

"We're all in different positions because each carrier is in a different place," he said. "But I don't think even Nostradomus could tell what the industry's going to look like even a few months from now."

"The good times are over," said Neil N. Bernstein, a law professor and airline labor expert at Washington University in St. Louis. "They are not coming back."

"What's surprising about this is that it's taken so long to play out." said Alan Bender, and associate professor at Embry-Riddle Aeronautical University.

In fact, with airline jobs being stripped of perks, pay and prestige, the carriers and their unions may find themselves with a whole new problem: Attrition.

"There are proposals being floated under the table now for mechanic wages that would make them better off at a Chevy dealership than at US Airways," said Robert Mann, as consultant who has worked with Americans pilots.

"These airlines could be looking at a situation where people are going to be resigning faster that they can be replaced," he said.

Since deregulation, labor unions have enjoyed the benifits of "pattern bargaining."

One union would reach a new contract at one airline, which would then become the minimum wage and benefit level for the next contract at subsequent airlines, a strategy called "jacking up the house".

Now the house is falling down, and fast. Each concession deal sets a new lower wage and benefit target for the next airline.

"Its never been more bleak than it is right now," said Mr. Bender of Embry-Riddle Aeronautical University.

The Transport Workers Union has a team working on new approaches to collective bargaining and continues to explore pension alternatives in concert with other American unions.

Mr. Little of the TWU said he's seen some encouraging results in how American has created a new collaborative relationship with its unions, the he remains cautious about the approach.

The new relationship with labor at American "is a very fragile commodity," Mr. Hunter said. "The analogy I use is walking out on thin ice together." "The ice is thinner in some spots than others."

Low cost, low fare carriers such as Jetblue Airways Inc. present a golden opportunity to organize new members for large unions that are seeing
declining dues revenue at traditional airlines.

"Its just a matter of timing," said Mr. Little, adding that representation drives are active at low cost carriers.

The relatively small Aircraft Mechanics Fraternal Association has quickly become a force among major airline mechanics, but its not affiliated with the broader AFL-CIO umbrella.

Instead, its poaching mechanics from big AFL-CIO unions, and nearly won an election for mechanics at American this year.

The new flight attendants union at Northwest is also unaffiliated, and the rise of non-AFL-CIO unions may weaken the labor coalition.

The barrage of concessions has made many unions vulnerable to membership raids.

"They just have to take the time ot convince their people that what they did had to be done," Mr. Bernstein said. "Thats not easy."

At American, labor leaders continue to work with management and discuss what's happening at other airlines. So far, the airline hasn't begun talks about more concessions or changes to employee pension plans.

"I think everybody's a little worried," Mr. Little said. We have to try to protect their investments they made when they took the jobs, which is where the airline promised longevity and security."


Apparently Do-little isn't worried about the crisis the twu membership finds itself in, the industry leading concessions did not affect him, his $200,000 salary, or his permenant job for life in the twu International. If Nostradomus where here to make a prediction about the twu, I think he would be quite correct in saying the twu will sellout again as long as the dues flow continues, like they have since 1983. Concessions are nothing new to the twu, and as long as the twu International has unaccountable leaders in bed with AA management, the membership will continue to suffer.

In the article, the Dallas News writer uses the word "poach" when refering to the fact that the twu, iam, ibt have lost mechanics to AMFA. He must have been coached by Do-little or the afl-cio to state this falsehood. Any mechanic not blinded or intimidated by the afl-cio unions will dispute for the record the AMFA movement has no paid organizers, this is the memberships only way of change in the dictatorships that describe the afl-cio unions. Those in the AMFA drive at AA and other carriers have spent countless hours, and their own money promoting AMFA because it is the only hope we have to save this profession that has been dumbed down by the industrial "catch all" unions, In addition, if the twu, iam, ibt did the job they are paid for and listened to the dues paying members, most likely the AMFA would not exist, let alone be as strong as it has become. The rise of non-afl-cio unions will not weaken the labor coalition, they have been weak for years in the case of the twu. This is one reason the AA flight attendants left the twu. The case of the flight attendants at NWA is a perfect example of how the afl-cio will do anything it can to suppress change. The industrail unions fail to see this as a major reason they are being ousted. NWA mechanics and now F/A's have a non-afl-cio unions. Intimidation and threats don't work anymore. Get it?

Do-little then states: "I think everybody's a little worried." Well, no kidding jim, everybody but you that is. Such a profound statement this is jim. When your in control of our future, yes we are very worried. Laughably, Do-little then says "representation drives are active at low cost carriers." Please jim, stop fooling yourself, there are no card drives for the twu that will go anywhere. There is no one in their right mind that would have the twu as a bargaining agent. Everyone thats still breathing in the aircraft mechanic profession has witnessed the twu's distruction of the profession first hand. Are you saying you have the twu International organizer/felon kirk wells giving a presentation to Jetblue Airways mechanics on the benefits of the twu? Please stop, I have soda coming out my nose from the laughter. Face it Do-little, your reign as the "Twu Aircraft Mechanic Sellout Kings" is over. Your union is dying and you can't stop it. Face it....BELIEVE IT.....its finished, for the twu and the Aircraft Mechanic Profession.
 
Kirk Wells: You mechanics here at Jetblue need the TWU!

Jetblue Mechs: Why do we need the TWU?

Kirk: You need us to get you the wages you deserve!

JB Mechs: Didn't the TWU invent the "B" scale,Flex benefits,OSM-SRP's?

Kirk: Well, yes we did! We negotiated these lower wages to prevent layoffs!

JB Mechs: So,if we elect you as our union, you will give us a paycut?

Kirk: Yes! It will save your job from being outsourced!

JB Mechs: But you gave the worst concessions in history at AA and still have almost 5000 mechanics on the street with even more layoffs coming!

Kirk: Well, yes we did! But it prevented bankruptcy!

JB Mechs: GET LOST BUDDY! Go write your "hot checks" somewhere else!
 
PRINCESS KIDAGAKASH said:
Kirk Wells: You mechanics here at Jetblue need the TWU!

Jetblue Mechs: Why do we need the TWU?

Kirk: You need us to get you the wages you deserve!

JB Mechs: Didn't the TWU invent the "B" scale,Flex benefits,OSM-SRP's?

Kirk: Well, yes we did! We negotiated these lower wages to prevent layoffs!

JB Mechs: So,if we elect you as our union, you will give us a paycut?

Kirk: Yes! It will save your job from being outsourced!

JB Mechs: But you gave the worst concessions in history at AA and still have almost 5000 mechanics on the street with even more layoffs coming!

Kirk: Well, yes we did! But it prevented bankruptcy!

JB Mechs: GET LOST BUDDY! Go write your "hot checks" somewhere else!
[post="232415"][/post]​
In Bankruptcy usually the top officers of the company are fired.

So, the TWU did save jobs.

By giving the company Industry Leading Concessions the TWU kept the same people that ran the company into the ground from losing THEIR jobs (Lets not forget that Jim Little has a family history with AA Management-his father in law was in management).

Sure 5000 mechanics lost their jobs and the rest lost 25% of their pay (Little hates the members anyway because he knows they would fire him if given the chance) but if those Top officials had been fired the TWU would have lost the $3.1 million they get from the company. They would probably not have full time International officials recieving a paycheck from the company anymore.

Without that $3.1 million the TWU would have a hard time supporting 22 Locals under one contract, perks such as union paid-for cars-$375,000, six figure salaries for themselves and a very generous pension that gives them a 5% annual increase.
 
The unions usually spend 90% of their resources trying to save the 10% of the members that really don't deserve a job due to their actions. The unions spend their resources helping reduce professionalism and production (profitability) to the lowest common denominator (the sorriest employees). If the unions would up the ante and police their own members then the companies could share more of their earned profits with employees instead of their earned losses.

The world is changing. Unions drive socializing the industry. Look at it this way, the initiative and drive for greatness can be reduced to "for example", a socialist profit margin. Go stand in the old bread lines in the old Russia for that. Otherwise, try to understand that if someone can't make a large profit and make it worth their time then they aren't going to waste their time building a company where you can get a job. This is the same line of thinking that you use when you don't make enough money to make it worth your time to go to work. This is the same line of thinking that the company uses when you want more of their profits.

Yes, Sears Roebuck and Co., and all of the car dealerships can hire high school kids (without FAA certifications) to install stereos and do maintenance and pay more than an airline mechanic would earn. They also work at flat rate because people will pay the price. People won't pay a higher price for an airline ticket....they will stay home or go by car.

It is a shame that the dollar is worth less than 10% of what it was in 1970. Yet, the price of an airline ticket is about the same or even less than it was for the same trip in 1970. Volume and cash flow are the only things that have kept the big airlines in business. Let's face it, the biggies were bankrupt before the 9/11 catastrophe.

The industry cannot pay pilots large salaries for sitting up front and tweaking a couple of knobs then landing every three hours or so. Sure, they have a lot of responsibility. Do they take it seriously? They fail to use checklists. They fail to stay alert. They fail to put on oxygen masks when one pilot leaves the cockpit. Hey, being in the same seat day after day gets old. Having to follow procedures gets old. Heck, airliners haven't changed in 50 years because the first officer still has to set the temperature for the cabin. Good thing, or he might doze off occasionally.

Even the flight attendants aren't exempt. They don't serve the purposes of making passengers safe by ensuring baggage is in place and seat belts are fastened. Many don't check the cabin before the aircraft even moves from the gate. They spend their time chatting and having fun. They have resolved to being waitresses (on call) when a button is pushed. Otherwise, they are sitting in the back reading a book or magazine.

Why would the public care or feel they are getting value for a dollar when they see the professionalism at such a low standard. The public knows what is happening even if it is at a subconcious level.

The industry will roll over. The public does not have enough money to bail out a broken system. The goverment is broke. Trillion dollar bailouts will further reduce the value of your dollar. The airline employees do have the ability to fix their system.

This reminds me of a banker's tale about farmers. If you are familiar with farmers in the south you know that many grow cotton and have for generations. The problem is that cotton is stacked up in warehouses and the government subsidizes not growing it.

Well, a farmer went to his banker to borrow money to plant cotton (again). The banker replies that he won't loan any more money to the farmer for cotton because the farmer has years of loans that he hasn't repaid since the prices are so low.

The farmer decides to plant onions and the banker agrees to give him one more loan. The farmer plants the onions, has a great year, and makes a great profit. He then goes to the bank and pays off all of his loans.

The banker is elated at his customers success. The banker then asks the farmer if he is going to plant onions again since he made so much money. The farmer replies, "No, I have enough money to plant cotton now."

The process goes....open a business, build a business, stay in business until your overhead from retirement and benefits reduces the profits, get out of the business. This happens to virtually all lines of business whether grocery stores or airlines. Southwest Airline's overhead is rising, Jet Blue's overhead is rising, they will have control and the cost of tickets will rise after the mega-airlines are broke. The rising cost of tickets will reduce the number of passengers and here we go again.
 
People won't pay a higher price for an airline ticket....they will stay home or go by car.

Oh really? Do you believe a taxi fare from MCI to south KC should cost more than a MCI-ORD fare? Well, it does...and they still pay the cabbie. They do not walk, they do not rent a bicycle....they take the taxi, and pay the cabbie, because the cabbie has set his rate and the public has shown they will dole out the moohlah verses walking.
 
DECISION 2007 said:
Oh really? Do you believe a taxi fare from MCI to south KC should cost more than a MCI-ORD fare? Well, it does...and they still pay the cabbie. They do not walk, they do not rent a bicycle....they take the taxi, and pay the cabbie, because the cabbie has set his rate and the public has shown they will dole out the moohlah verses walking.
[post="232673"][/post]​

Good point 2007.
 
DECISION 2007 said:
Did Mr. Little post this somewhere? Or is it simply your feelings as an ousted TWU rep?
[post="232660"][/post]​


Another Alias or Two? geez

How many you figure one indsutrial unionist is entitled to anyway?

Why do you carry on like this? Can't you see the writing on the wall?
 
Decision 2004 said:
Another Alias or Two? geez

How may you figure one indsutrial unionist is entitled to anyway?

Why do you carry on like this? Can't you see the writing on the wall?
[post="232750"][/post]​

What are you talking about ?
 
DECISION 2007 said:
Did Mr. Little post this somewhere? Or is it simply your feelings as an ousted TWU rep?
[post="232660"][/post]​


Well from his comments about the members we can "infer" this. He often criticizes the membership claiming that "they dont care" or that they "dont participate" etc. All just lame excuses for his lack of leadership abilities.
 
randyzon said:
The unions usually spend 90% of their resources trying to save the 10% of the members that really don't deserve a job due to their actions.

Not true. 30% goes towards the International, most of which is used to pay for salaries, perks and pensions for top union officials. Out of the 70% that stays with the locals about 80% goes for salaries and lost time for Local officials.

The unions spend their resources helping reduce professionalism and production (profitability) to the lowest common denominator (the sorriest employees).

The TWU considers this to be their greatest attribute. In a recent edition of the TWU express Sonny Hall brags that he found out what the TWU was all about when they prevented him from being terminated when he openly admits that he "should have been fired". The paper later brags that Sonny was a "Less than stellar" worker who became the head of the TWU.

If the unions would up the ante and police their own members then the companies could share more of their earned profits with employees instead of their earned losses.

Could, but not likely that they would.

The world is changing. Unions drive socializing the industry. Look at it this way, the initiative and drive for greatness can be reduced to "for example", a socialist profit margin. Go stand in the old bread lines in the old Russia for that.

Russia was a Communist dictatorship, not realy a good example of Socialism. Why not compare our standard of living to most of Europe? I've been to Ireland, England a Wales several times. I did not see any Bread lines there.

Otherwise, try to understand that if someone can't make a large profit and make it worth their time then they aren't going to waste their time building a company where you can get a job.

And if someone is not going to make a large paycheck why should they waste their time going to work?

This is the same line of thinking that you use when you don't make enough money to make it worth your time to go to work. This is the same line of thinking that the company uses when you want more of their profits.

Yes, Sears Roebuck and Co., and all of the car dealerships can hire high school kids (without FAA certifications) to install stereos and do maintenance and pay more than an airline mechanic would earn. They also work at flat rate because people will pay the price. People won't pay a higher price for an airline ticket....they will stay home or go by car.

Sure they will. Let them drive to Europe and the Caribbean. Let them drive across the country when a family member dies, they will simply keep the dead on ice till they get there. Let them drive five days for a one hour business meeting, beets paying an extra $100 for airfare right?

It is a shame that the dollar is worth less than 10% of what it was in 1970. Yet, the price of an airline ticket is about the same or even less than it was for the same trip in 1970. Volume and cash flow are the only things that have kept the big airlines in business. Let's face it, the biggies were bankrupt before the 9/11 catastrophe.


The industry cannot pay pilots large salaries for sitting up front and tweaking a couple of knobs then landing every three hours or so. Sure, they have a lot of responsibility. Do they take it seriously? They fail to use checklists. They fail to stay alert. They fail to put on oxygen masks when one pilot leaves the cockpit.

How do you know this? Are you a pilot?

Hey, being in the same seat day after day gets old. Having to follow procedures gets old. Heck, airliners haven't changed in 50 years because the first officer still has to set the temperature for the cabin. Good thing, or he might doze off occasionally.

Havent changed in 50 Years? Really? And how would you know that? I've only been around 25 years and I've noticed changes. Just in my time its gone from 3 cockpit members to two. In the last 50 its gone from 5 to 2, but you claim nothing has changed.

Even the flight attendants aren't exempt. They don't serve the purposes of making passengers safe by ensuring baggage is in place and seat belts are fastened. Many don't check the cabin before the aircraft even moves from the gate. They spend their time chatting and having fun. They have resolved to being waitresses (on call) when a button is pushed. Otherwise, they are sitting in the back reading a book or magazine.

Why would the public care or feel they are getting value for a dollar when they see the professionalism at such a low standard. The public knows what is happening even if it is at a subconcious level.

The industry will roll over. The public does not have enough money to bail out a broken system. The goverment is broke. Trillion dollar bailouts will further reduce the value of your dollar. The airline employees do have the ability to fix their system.

This reminds me of a banker's tale about farmers. If you are familiar with farmers in the south you know that many grow cotton and have for generations. The problem is that cotton is stacked up in warehouses and the government subsidizes not growing it.

Well, a farmer went to his banker to borrow money to plant cotton (again). The banker replies that he won't loan any more money to the farmer for cotton because the farmer has years of loans that he hasn't repaid since the prices are so low.

The farmer decides to plant onions and the banker agrees to give him one more loan. The farmer plants the onions, has a great year, and makes a great profit. He then goes to the bank and pays off all of his loans.

The banker is elated at his customers success. The banker then asks the farmer if he is going to plant onions again since he made so much money. The farmer replies, "No, I have enough money to plant cotton now."

The process goes....open a business, build a business, stay in business until your overhead from retirement and benefits reduces the profits, get out of the business. This happens to virtually all lines of business whether grocery stores or airlines. Southwest Airline's overhead is rising, Jet Blue's overhead is rising, they will have control and the cost of tickets will rise after the mega-airlines are broke. The rising cost of tickets will reduce the number of passengers and here we go again.

The rising cost of tickets? I thought you just said they were the same as 1970?
[post="232668"][/post]​
 
seed said:
randy has evidently entered the wrong forum. He is neither Labor nor Union, but does have obvious issues.
[post="232905"][/post]​
Whats the difference between Labor and Union? Arent the terms often used synonimously? Then again with the TWU, where the TWU is considered the "union" there definately is a difference. Glad to see that you recognized that.

The members are Labor and the TWU International is the union. Two very seperate entities with different objectives. We want good pay and benifits while they want us to accept less pay and benifits so the can get more dues payers.

Basically the TWU has the same motive as the company, they want us to have less so they can have more. The company wants us to work for less so they can have higher profits, the TWU wants us to work for less so they can have higher profits.

Who is looking out for the members interests? Nobody!

Its time for us to get a union that will look out for the members bottom line.The TWU must go!
 
Well from his comments about the members we can "infer" this. He often criticizes the membership claiming that "they dont care" or that they "dont participate" etc. All just lame excuses for his lack of leadership abilities.

I could state you don't care, but it doesn't mean I hate you. And the fact that union members , for the most part, do not participate is not inherant of the TWU only. Until matters affect them, most are dormant in their union activity. Family schedules and such run a higher priority.

Basically the TWU has the same motive as the company, they want us to have less so they can have more. The company wants us to work for less so they can have higher profits, the TWU wants us to work for less so they can have higher profits.

Basically then I can assume you feel that AMFA and NWA share the same motives, working for less so they can have higher profits, or is AMFA exempt for some unknown reason?

Its time for us to get a union that will look out for the members bottom line
Who might you have lined up to come and do better?
 
seed,Dec 29 2004, 03:06 PM]
I could state you don't care, but it doesn't mean I hate you.

No but if you worked hand in hand with the company to destroy our careers I would consider it a hateful act.

And the fact that union members , for the most part, do not participate is not inherant of the TWU only.

No but concessions are "inherant" to the TWU.

Until matters affect them, most are dormant in their union activity. Family schedules and such run a higher priority.

Dormant? Doesnt actively paying dues every week count?

Basically then I can assume you feel that AMFA and NWA share the same motives, working for less so they can have higher profits, or is AMFA exempt for some unknown reason?

Well we gave the company concessions two years ago, to date AMFA has given up nothing. So as usual your assumption is wrong. When we gave concessions it was not to "match" or "compete", we set a new low standard far beyond what any other union ever gave up. AMFA is not exempt, they are just doing a better job at maintaining the standards so that when demand returns those who are laid off will have a good job to return to. AMFA performance has surpassed the TWU by any measure and even at UAL AMFA is fighting for their members, instead of just repeating whatever the company claims like the TWU did. AMFA is challenging managements claims. Recently when UAL claimed that they had to have the new contract till 2010 AMFA questioned them, the company claimed the lenders demanded it, AMFA said "We want to speak directly to them", the company backed off and changed their story. The TWU did none of this. They took every claim from the company and met every demand unchallenged, as if we had no union.


Who might you have lined up to come and do better?

Well I'll modify the line used during the election "Anybody but the TWU". That means AMFA. Not only will going to AMFA serve to rid us of a company union but it will also put us on the path to restoring the profession with a union that will not take work away from A&Ps and give to to lower paid workers.

The TWU is a disgrace of a union. Look at the "Joint Business Education Communication Committee. A Company sponsored and financed effort to brainwash the workforce. Look at how the TWU is a partner to this scheme. Show this to any real unionist and they would be stunned.

Look at how they say "Want more info? Contact your manager, supervisor or union representative". Notice how the Union has become a part of management. And the lowest part at that. Manager-supervisor-union. Three links in the chain.

When you read this corporate/company union propaganda its sickening. Steve Blankenship should be removed for calling the concessions an "investment". Would he call flushing $1.8 billion down the toilet an investment too?

Then again the pilots got a better deal anyway, while all unionized workgroups gave up 25% of their compensation and got nothing the pilots gave it all up in pay, were relieved of the fine and they kept there OT rates and premuims, and in one year they already got back 9% of their pay.

Over the 6 year term of the TWU agreement we will only see 7% restored, we will still be getting 18% less in 2008 than we were in 2003.

Compare that to a 777 pilot whose pay will go from $142.91 (not including premiums etc)/hr in 2003 to $171.93hr by 5/1/08. So the pilots will be seeing a 18% restoration while we are only getting a 7% restoration, all of which will be outpaced by inflation.

While the pilots end up 7% lower than in 2003, getting back over 18% of what they gave up the TWU had us end up 18% lower than we were in 2003, only getting back 7%. The numbers are nearly perfectly matched but inverted. The pilots get just about all of it back while we get none of it back. So in the next round of negotiations the pilots only need to ask for a 7% increase to be fully restored to their pre-concessions contract whereas we would have to ask for a package that represents a 18% increase just to get back to where we were in 2003.

7% less than in 2003 verses 18% less than 2003, the pilots will see a full restoration, with the TWU we never will. The TWU has never admitted that concessions are a mistake, Koziatek claimed that B-scale was good because it Created jobs, Sonny Hall in recent testimony claimed that we did not give concessions, that we made "neccisary" adjustments, not concessions!!! If we stay with the TWU they will not change and continue to keep us up front in the race to the bottom because it has been good for the TWU.

So maybe Blankenships comments about "investment" applies, but only to the pilots. The TWU Screwed every member they claim to represent. They claimed that we all gave the same concessions to the company, obviously they lied.