East and west, we can all get along

[CGAft]

That's really sad that you guys have that working against you. I can tell you, when the West( PHX) came over to help us with Qik/SHARES, we were pissed about the system but it was party time after work.

Then, when I went to help them with decs/fos cutover in September in LAS, it was party time all over again with a different group. Everyone was nice.

It does seem that across the board, West has been bullied by management all along and kind of turns the cheek .....

They dont EVER give comp upgrades in Vegas. EVER. But in the East, in a hub, it's easy because if you had a good reason, and the seats were there, no one will ever bother you.

I will throw my 2 cents in. Honestly I have had interaction with my PHX counterparts since very early on in the merger and they are great people. As the FOS cutover drew near I seemed to be in PHX or LAS every other week. The ramp and ops folks were great and even with a change coming most of them had a good attitude about it. There were the typical "squeaky wheels" but you will have that in any job or occucation.

 

[sharonstoneseat]

I think the biggest problem west has with east is this: West thinks that East hates everything different. :angry: When we talk to each other the ony thing we really think is that "east hates change", the West FA's are used to it and just "go with it" most of the time.

But all in all, west fa's have great things to say about east fa's that they have met, we just wish you guys would adjust better, this is not intended to be a mean post

This is not intended to be a mean post either but..

Key phrase.....West thinks......but does not investigate. Get yourself some serious exposure to East people even if you have to non-rev East and spend time in their crew rooms. You will be amazed at the amount of things that they have adapted to over the years. Look at the latest, the closure of their original home base, Pittsburgh. Experiences you have not even had to fathom yet.

And I am a West F/A. "When we talk to each other" Please get some working or extended social experience with the East before you make pronouncements about what our own internal group likes to" think" using only the West frame of reference. Stop feeding each other and get outside your little coffee clubs.

"We just wish you guy would adjust better" Condescending remark....be specific about what things your "think" they are not adjusting to if you are going to speak for West F/As to our peers on the East on this board. Do yourself a big favor and if you are giong to sit on the guest jumpseat on a 321 or a 330 and make this smarmy conclusion you better be able to back it up!

We are all part of the airline community. Do you "think" you could possibly be more curious and factual before you become critical and condescending?

And yes, we just "go with it". Things like lowest pay in the industry, crummy sick policy, 12 hour days on straight pay.

I think that NOT just "going with it" is one of the most necessary and attractive things about my East counterparts.

 

[N903AW]

Key phrase.....West thinks......but does not investigate.

I think that NOT just "going with it" is one of the most necessary and attractive things about my East counterparts.

Hear! Hear!

 

[EMBFA]

Well said Sharonstoneseat...

WCT, thank you for your post as well. I've met some great west crews, and have some east friends that are in PHX now. I've had a fair bit of interaction with west crews in lobbies, vans, bars etc. It varies as much as interaction with crews from other airlines.

The major difference I see, and this is generalizing, is experience. I've overheard west F/As rolling their eyes and claiming the east F/As are bitter. Have you ever talked to any of them? Sit down with one. If you talk to someone around my seniority you'd probably be shocked at what we've endured. Have you ever been furloughed? Displaced? Worked for the company while they claimed you didn't? That's folks with less than ten years. How about PSA flight attendants? Imagine if PHX and LAS were shuttered tomorrow. What would you do? Have you ever been ready to strike? How many aircraft types have you worked? I can count fourteen. How many bases have you been in, how many unexpected moves or commutes have you been through? How many years have you put in? We range from 7 years minimum to 50.

The "get used to it" to "learn to change" comments don't do much for the already smaller and less protected west F/As. In fact, it portrays extreme ignorance. With all due respect, if any of us had wanted to work for America West, we would have applied. The high turnover means they were always hiring. Depending on the generation, we expected to work for a major airline. We once considered the other majors our peers, not the Spirits or AirTrans of the industry. This way of operating is just not something we will get used to or can have any pride in. Please don't put us down for wanting and fighting for better. I've outlasted three CEOs and will probably outlast this one. My co-workers have outlasted countless managements. We know this ugly phase will pass too. We have been through more changes than Joan Rivers' face, and that is something to be respected.

Talk to us. We might be sharing a contract and a galley. We can learn from each other. Just don't come in with an attitude that you somehow 'saved' us or that we need to lower our standards. Alot of the things we are loud about, be it a contract item or a cart set-up, come from 70 years of experience and countless mergers. This isn't our first time at the rodeo... we know how to work together, and know what works for what we do. That doesn't mean we can't learn from you as well... allow yourselves to integrate into the larger group bringing your knowlege, and join us in aspiring to a higher standard, not a lower one.

 

[CGAft]

Well said Sharonstoneseat...

WCT, thank you for your post as well. I've met some great west crews, and have some east friends that are in PHX now. I've had a fair bit of interaction with west crews in lobbies, vans, bars etc. It varies as much as interaction with crews from other airlines.

The major difference I see, and this is generalizing, is experience. I've overheard west F/As rolling their eyes and claiming the east F/As are bitter. Have you ever talked to any of them? Sit down with one. If you talk to someone around my seniority you'd probably be shocked at what we've endured. Have you ever been furloughed? Displaced? Worked for the company while they claimed you didn't? That's folks with less than ten years. How about PSA flight attendants? Imagine if PHX and LAS were shuttered tomorrow. What would you do? Have you ever been ready to strike? How many aircraft types have you worked? I can count fourteen. How many bases have you been in, how many unexpected moves or commutes have you been through? How many years have you put in? We range from 7 years minimum to 50.

The "get used to it" to "learn to change" comments don't do much for the already smaller and less protected west F/As. In fact, it portrays extreme ignorance. With all due respect, if any of us had wanted to work for America West, we would have applied. The high turnover means they were always hiring. Depending on the generation, we expected to work for a major airline. We once considered the other majors our peers, not the Spirits or AirTrans of the industry. This way of operating is just not something we will get used to or can have any pride in. Please don't put us down for wanting and fighting for better. I've outlasted three CEOs and will probably outlast this one. My co-workers have outlasted countless managements. We know this ugly phase will pass too. We have been through more changes than Joan Rivers' face, and that is something to be respected.

Talk to us. We might be sharing a contract and a galley. We can learn from each other. Just don't come in with an attitude that you somehow 'saved' us or that we need to lower our standards. Alot of the things we are loud about, be it a contract item or a cart set-up, come from 70 years of experience and countless mergers. This isn't our first time at the rodeo... we know how to work together, and know what works for what we do. That doesn't mean we can't learn from you as well... allow yourselves to integrate into the larger group bringing your knowlege, and join us in aspiring to a higher standard, not a lower one.

EMBFA and All

If you asked the West guys in my Dept what they learned in the first 6 months theyd say alot. I cant chime in on inflight but have alot of knoweledge of cockpit stuff. I am an MSP employe so I dont voice opinions on those posts. As far as service...when I have to got o Europe i use LH....always confirmed in Business....we could learn from them. And before you ask. Im a grunt like you. If yall had the tools you would do as good as LH im sure.

I just wish this all would get worked out.

 

[CGAft]

Well said Sharonstoneseat...

WCT, thank you for your post as well. I've met some great west crews, and have some east friends that are in PHX now. I've had a fair bit of interaction with west crews in lobbies, vans, bars etc. It varies as much as interaction with crews from other airlines.

The major difference I see, and this is generalizing, is experience. I've overheard west F/As rolling their eyes and claiming the east F/As are bitter. Have you ever talked to any of them? Sit down with one. If you talk to someone around my seniority you'd probably be shocked at what we've endured. Have you ever been furloughed? Displaced? Worked for the company while they claimed you didn't? That's folks with less than ten years. How about PSA flight attendants? Imagine if PHX and LAS were shuttered tomorrow. What would you do? Have you ever been ready to strike? How many aircraft types have you worked? I can count fourteen. How many bases have you been in, how many unexpected moves or commutes have you been through? How many years have you put in? We range from 7 years minimum to 50.

The "get used to it" to "learn to change" comments don't do much for the already smaller and less protected west F/As. In fact, it portrays extreme ignorance. With all due respect, if any of us had wanted to work for America West, we would have applied. The high turnover means they were always hiring. Depending on the generation, we expected to work for a major airline. We once considered the other majors our peers, not the Spirits or AirTrans of the industry. This way of operating is just not something we will get used to or can have any pride in. Please don't put us down for wanting and fighting for better. I've outlasted three CEOs and will probably outlast this one. My co-workers have outlasted countless managements. We know this ugly phase will pass too. We have been through more changes than Joan Rivers' face, and that is something to be respected.

Talk to us. We might be sharing a contract and a galley. We can learn from each other. Just don't come in with an attitude that you somehow 'saved' us or that we need to lower our standards. Alot of the things we are loud about, be it a contract item or a cart set-up, come from 70 years of experience and countless mergers. This isn't our first time at the rodeo... we know how to work together, and know what works for what we do. That doesn't mean we can't learn from you as well... allow yourselves to integrate into the larger group bringing your knowlege, and join us in aspiring to a higher standard, not a lower one.

 

[cactusflyer]

I have to chime and as ask that the "easties" please not lump all the "westies" into one group. While we may not have gone through multiple mergers, multiple bankruptcies, numerous base changes and a plethora of other things many of us "get" what the east has gone through. I just think some "westies" feel as though the east thinks they have more of a right to complain because they have "gone through more" and because we haven't gone through as much we should just shut up. In the end both sides need to realize we all have our crosses to bear and we've been through some of the same things, just not as many times and not to the same degree. As such we have all experienced the same feelings of angst, disgust, uncertainty and complete outrage at the way we have been mis- managed and continue to be mis-managed all the while multiple CEO's come and then leave with pristine golden parachutes. The irritation we all feel needs to be directed at the management of this company and NOT each other.

The one thing the management of this company has excelled at is playing one side against the other....they have that down to a science. What we need to do is start communicating with each other and building some solidarity. I imagine the FA's would be quite a force to be reckoned with if we were all on the same page. When management tells you something about the west FA's don't always believe it to be true and we need to do the same on the west when they hand us some line of bull about the east. That would be a good first step. I for one recognize all the east has been subjected to and commend many of you for hanging in there as long as you have. Lesser people would have given up a looong time ago.

 

[Whatnow?]

I have to chime and as ask that the "easties" please not lump all the "westies" into one group. While we may not have gone through multiple mergers, multiple bankruptcies, numerous base changes and a plethora of other things many of us "get" what the east has gone through. I just think some "westies" feel as though the east thinks they have more of a right to complain because they have "gone through more" and because we haven't gone through as much we should just shut up. In the end both sides need to realize we all have our crosses to bear and we've been through some of the same things, just not as many times and not to the same degree. As such we have all experienced the same feelings of angst, disgust, uncertainty and complete outrage at the way we have been mis- managed and continue to be mis-managed all the while multiple CEO's come and then leave with pristine golden parachutes. The irritation we all feel needs to be directed at the management of this company and NOT each other.

I agree with you on this 100%! I'm guilty of categorizing the West employees into the whole equation of a bad management team. When in reality the west employees are as much a victim to bad management as the East employees are. Had this transition gone much smoother and with more respect from our current management, I don't think that any of us would be having this conversation right now. The East employees were soo looking forward to the "new" management team at AWA because they seemed to be a breath of fresh air from all of the old regimes that the East had been victim to. But with countless blunders and mistakes, the negativity soon rose to the surface again. It's unfortunate, and we ALL wish that this merger would have been handled with a little more experience and education than it currently is being handled. But the bottom line is we are ALL in the same position now and we can only hope that things will get better!

 

[Be Careful What You Wish For.]

But the bottom line is we are ALL in the same position now and we can only hope that things will get better!

Could not agree more. The sooner we get what we want from management in a single contract the sooner we will be one F/A group.

 

[Travelpro72]

I don't just don't understand for the life of me how anyone can defend ANYTHING that this management tead does. ANYTHING. I couldn't be a part of anything they or even begin to think as management does.

 

[Whatnow?]

What I can't understand is how our Stockholders and the B.O.D can continue to let these imbesols make mistake after mistake and not do anything about it! Eventually, the flying public is gonna say enough is enough no matter what the price of the ticket is. Accountablility is a strong word that seems to be lax throughout this company from top to bottom. When we they realize that the current management team is in WAY over their heads!

 

[SegmentKing]

I will vouch for a lot of ground staff when I say this:

The day they announced the merger, we all had a big sigh of relief. It was because we knew that HP was a dynamic company that appeared to have a decent leadership and proactive management. We felt the days of Gestapo were over.

As time progressed, things started to change on BOTH SIDES, HP and US. We got rid of good policies in place of bad ones (both sides). They seemed to take a quick look at the East way of business compared to the West, and instead of taking the BEST practices of both, they decided to measure it out using the lowest common demoninator and lowest cost option - instead of doing what is RIGHT and MAKES SENSE.

We are going to be arguing over why Sabre is better than Shares or how Shares is better than Sabre, yadda yadda... complain about closets and galleys, but at the end of the day, the East has taken a bigger hit in terms of change, the Westies are facing a workforce 3 times their senior, and the economy isn't quite running ahead at full speed - so everyone's guard is up and fears are thru the roof.

 

[hpflygirl]

Cactus, I also agree with you! This company divided us right from the start by making us USEast & USWest. I have met many east crews....jumpseating, non-reving, in the PHX crew room, in PHL while waiting for my pasta at the place by B6, etc...and all have been sooooo nice to me. I have heard this from many, many other West F/A's as well. We non-rev'd to Venice this past fall and EVERYONE was so wonderful to us...starting with the gate agents and then the flight crews even more so! I think it's about being respectful to one another and just being nice....and maybe having a smile on your face when you are talking to one another.
We all have the same issues with this company, and I don't see them going away soon. And while I get really tired of all the blunders, games and crap we go through I still like coming to work.....and it's because of the people I work with (ok, I'm in my 50's and need the health ins. too). Also, there is no other job I could do that would give me the flexibility to change my schedule every month to allow me to do the other things I want to do.
The thing that really makes me laugh, though, is that in every conversation I've had with an East F/A, whether one on one or in a group, I am always reminded by them how senior they are. Believe me...all of us on the "West" are very well aware how senior you all are! LOLOL!!!
And...this is one of the most positive threads I've read here in a long time. The MKE gate agent story was great too, but it's nice to hear both sides agreeing!

 

[bagchucker]

By and large, many of the folks in our combined labor force share a common ground. We do the same work, work the same aircraft, and can relate to one another when discussing the job. What we don't share in common is a united labor force. It is still divided because mgmt. endorses this and is quite content with the situation, if not, they would be desperate to correct it. WE as a commn labor force are held hostage by mgmt's complacent approach to combine labor, hiding behind the guise of the intracacies of difficult contract language. Hence, we have division among the ranks and 2 very different payscales. If you remove those differences that mgmt. fosters, you truly have a common ground among the workers (wow, what a concept!) and a product that is more marketable.

We as workers suffer the wrath that Tempe creates and endorses. We bicker because these items are beyond our control. The company does not want harmonious unity, so our current state of affairs is not only tolerated, it is what the suit and ties want. Remove that stupid ideology, and you have a workforce that can relate to one another and get along and do the same job and DO IT WELL!!

 

[Be Careful What You Wish For.]

The thing that really makes me laugh, though, is that in every conversation I've had with an East F/A, whether one on one or in a group, I am always reminded by them how senior they are. Believe me...all of us on the "West" are very well aware how senior you all are! LOLOL!!!
And...this is one of the most positive threads I've read here in a long time. The MKE gate agent story was great too, but it's nice to hear both sides agreeing!

First of all, nice post. Not everything is "doom and gloom" back east.

I, as well of the majority, I think, enjoy coming to work every day.

I also agree that a smile goes a long way whether working or going through your day.

The seniority thing simply is a fact of working for the old U. We have been stagnant for so long and as you can see from some of the other threads that, if you had a choice you would not have picked US.

It has taken a lot to stick around this long so one is amazed that there is anyone that may have been hired recently(last 10 years).

Believe me it has been a rough ride but I would never try to make this an issue. Honestly, I try to avoid the issue when commuting.

Hopefully this issue hasn't been presented to you in a smug fashion.

Looking forward to working w/ you some day.

Cheers.