Every 8 days

[AV1]

Uh, what does the number of mechanics have to do with how much they earn per hour? [5-50-500-5000 mechanics - everybody knows a larger carrier with more aircraft is going to need more mechanics.] An individual utilizing his A&P in the hanger at TULE should not be paid any less than a A&P at a Line Station because we are working on the same B737-B757-B777 ect. and utilizing the same skills and license.Guess what, we also do PS-A & B Checks in Tulsa along with ADL & E6 Logbook Entries.How can you say with any honesty at all that O/H mechanics should make less than Line Mechanics?
Now COLA for various regions of the country on top of AMT wages is another matter all together.I agree that an AMT in LGA-LAX-ORD-MIA-ect. should get ADDITIONAL Regional Pay that someone working in Tulsa would not qualify for.
If they pay a O/H AMT $37.00/HR and a Line AMT $37.00/HR PLUS $6.00 OR SOME FIGURE / HR COLA for working at JFK-LAX I do NOT have a problem at all with this.

Couldn't have said it better myself.

 

[BoeingBoy]

Uh, what does the number of mechanics have to do with how much they earn per hour? [5-50-500-5000 mechanics - everybody knows a larger carrier with more aircraft is going to need more mechanics.]

Well, your premise is wrong so that makes your conclusion wrong. Airline size and number of mechanics don't directly correlate - WN and AA have about the same number of airplanes (within 10%) but AA has ~11X as many mechanics. That's part of the reason WN can pay it mechanics more than AA (and 36 straight years of profits vs however many billions AA has lost since 911 is a factor too).

Jim

 

[telebender1956]

Well, your premise is wrong so that makes your conclusion wrong. Airline size and number of mechanics don't directly correlate - WN and AA have about the same number of airplanes (within 10%) but AA has ~11X as many mechanics. That's part of the reason WN can pay it mechanics more than AA (and 36 straight years of profits vs however many billions AA has lost since 911 is a factor too).

Jim

Your 11x number is a bogus number because the AA/TWU Title 1 List includes Aircraft Cleaners and OSM's.

 

[Duke787]

It wasn't that long ago that engineers were still in the cockpit, and they weren't represented by APA or the TWU. They were represented by the Flight Engineers International Association up until the 727's and DC10s were finally retired.

THe way I remember it, the FE's were part of the TWU, then they went to the APA, where they decided to hire junior pilots to be FE's rather then A&P's.(I could be wrong). What a waste 3 guys that don't know systems or how to troubleshoot. Before the JR pilots that were FE's come and say they knew everything, I can assure you that you DID NOT match the knowledge of a 2 striper.

 

[eolesen]

Here's the 2008 BTS stat on maintenance employees per airline (not just wrenches -- also includes stores, engineers, schedulers, clerks, etc.)

          Maint   Total % of population
AA       14,479    70,923    20%
DL        7,514    58,945    13%
UA        6,490    51,526    13%
CO        3,889    40,630    10%
WN        1,701    34,680    5%
US        3,421    32,683    10%
NW          266    29,124    1%
B6          471    10,177    5%
AS          727     9,628    8%
FL          409     8,259    5%
HA          286     3,315    9%
G4          122     1,330    9%

Others have questioned this as there are only 9500 on the M&R seniority list, and supposedly 2500 at WN.

Maybe ~11x is a bit high, but the point still stands -- AMR and WN have about the same number of aircraft, yet AA has 5x the number of AMTs.

Having widebodies and a more complex fleet might explain having twice as many, but 5x as many?...

 

[telebender1956]

Here's the 2008 BTS stat on maintenance employees per airline (not just wrenches -- also includes stores, engineers, schedulers, clerks, etc.)

          Maint   Total % of population
AA       14,479    70,923    20%
DL        7,514    58,945    13%
UA        6,490    51,526    13%
CO        3,889    40,630    10%
WN        1,701    34,680    5%
US        3,421    32,683    10%
NW          266    29,124    1%
B6          471    10,177    5%
AS          727     9,628    8%
FL          409     8,259    5%
HA          286     3,315    9%
G4          122     1,330    9%

Others have questioned this as there are only 9500 on the M&R seniority list, and supposedly 2500 at WN.

Maybe ~11x is a bit high, but the point still stands -- AMR and WN have about the same number of aircraft, yet AA has 5x the number of AMTs.

Having widebodies and a more complex fleet might explain having twice as many, but 5x as many?...

Have you ever worked a Boeing 727-737-757 Heavy C Check and seen the actual check from start to finish?

 

[Runwaysticker]

Here's the 2008 BTS stat on maintenance employees per airline (not just wrenches -- also includes stores, engineers, schedulers, clerks, etc.)

          Maint   Total % of population
AA       14,479    70,923    20%
DL        7,514    58,945    13%
UA        6,490    51,526    13%
CO        3,889    40,630    10%
WN        1,701    34,680    5%
US        3,421    32,683    10%
NW          266    29,124    1%
B6          471    10,177    5%
AS          727     9,628    8%
FL          409     8,259    5%
HA          286     3,315    9%
G4          122     1,330    9%

Others have questioned this as there are only 9500 on the M&R seniority list, and supposedly 2500 at WN.

Maybe ~11x is a bit high, but the point still stands -- AMR and WN have about the same number of aircraft, yet AA has 5x the number of AMTs.

Having widebodies and a more complex fleet might explain having twice as many, but 5x as many?...

Why do you use 2 year old stats, the numbers have changed a lot since 2008............

 

[Hopeful]

Well, your premise is wrong so that makes your conclusion wrong. Airline size and number of mechanics don't directly correlate - WN and AA have about the same number of airplanes (within 10%) but AA has ~11X as many mechanics. That's part of the reason WN can pay it mechanics more than AA (and 36 straight years of profits vs however many billions AA has lost since 911 is a factor too).

Jim

How many widebodies does SWA have? Larger aircraft require more employees?
How many fleets does SWA fly?
How many hangars does SWA maintain?

 

[Hopeful]

It wasn't that long ago that engineers were still in the cockpit, and they weren't represented by APA or the TWU. They were represented by the Flight Engineers International Association up until the 727's and DC10s were finally retired.

Yes, and it was the pilots' union who changed it and wanted only pilots in the cockpit. AA and the APA had grandfathered our FE's in until their were none.

 

[BoeingBoy]

How many widebodies does SWA have? Larger aircraft require more employees?
How many fleets does SWA fly?
How many hangars does SWA maintain?

To quote the post I was replying to...

everybody knows a larger carrier with more aircraft is going to need more mechanics.

Where in that statement of what "everybody knows" does it say anything about size of aircraft, number of fleet types, hangers, etc?

Having said that, your list is definitely a factor in number of mechanics. If telebender1956 had included those you wouldn't have heard a peep from me.

Jim

 

[Interested]

How many widebodies does SWA have? Larger aircraft require more employees?
How many fleets does SWA fly?
How many hangars does SWA maintain?

Not only that, but how many more mechanics, stock clerks, management would SWA need if they did all their own overhauls instead of farming that out?

 

[Hopeful]

To quote the post I was replying to...



Where in that statement of what "everybody knows" does it say anything about size of aircraft, number of fleet types, hangers, etc?

Having said that, your list is definitely a factor in number of mechanics. If telebender1956 had included those you wouldn't have heard a peep from me.

Jim

Having read many of your posts, It's obvious you are knowledgeable about the issues discussed. Therefore, I responded assuming you were aware.
Anyway, comparing AA to SWA when it comes to costs and expenses is not realistic nor is it fair.. Comparing ANY airline to ANOTHER is not realistic. No two carriers are alike and no two carriers are alike in mosts aspects of operation. Of course some will respond "IF'S NOT FAIR TO COMPARE, THEN WE SHOULDN'T EXPECT SWA WAGES." To those, my answer is that the job in itself warrants the pay, not how many people doing it nor what type or size jet they do it on.
If they insist on saying "DON'T EXPECT SWA WAGES BECAUSE THEY HAVE LESS MECHANICS AND DON'T DO THEIR IN HOUSE HEAVY MAINTENANCE!"......To them I say, "Ok, as long as the company stops comparing their structure to that of SWA."

I invite those of you who have access to check the Title 1 seniority list. You will see the total a little below 9200.
Now, out of that 9200, you can start deducting the parts washers, aircraft cleaners, OSM's, and instructors TCC-T!), the actual number of AMT's is reduced further.

 

[DallasConehead]

You guys are funny, E brings out a stat that clearly shows AA top heavy with mech and support staff/aircraft and you shift excuses to fleet type and widebody? The obvious reason is OH, get a grip. Whats more AA OH prices/man hour are far and above what the carriers that contract all their junk is. Now, go bury your heads in the sand.

 

[MCI transplant]

You guys are funny, E brings out a stat that clearly shows AA top heavy with mech and support staff/aircraft and you shift excuses to fleet type and widebody? The obvious reason is OH, get a grip. Whats more AA OH prices/man hour are far and above what the carriers that contract all their junk is. Now, go bury your heads in the sand.

<_< ------ Now that's the "kinder, gentler" conehead I remember!

 

[eolesen]

Why do you use 2 year old stats, the numbers have changed a lot since 2008............

I'm sure they have, but that's what I have available. If you'd like to put in the time and research to get the 2009 stats, have at it.