EX-TWA F/A's want their seniority

[Hopeful]

Maybe we should just give them 100% AA pension too.





http://www.dallasnews.com/sharedcontent/dw...on1.9ccd63.html

 

[STAAPLED]

How about doing the right thing APFA? This injustice is going to be exposed over and over again. It will never go away until all parties involved in this travesty takes his/her last breath on this earth. The APFA is being urged to do the right thing and start acting like a true union. We are not asking for "your" seniority, we just want "our" seniority. Stay tuned for future events.

Moderator Note: Deleted copyrighted material. Link to material already provided in above post. Do not post copyrighted material. Thank you.

 

[WingNaPrayer]

If they can figure out a way to have their seniority, but NOT let it put them ahead of others at a company they had never worked a single day in their life for, then maybe they can have it. But, when granting TWAs their seniority and it puts them ahead of AA people with 20-30 years of working for AA, all fairness flies out the window.

Let them continue to bring it up until the end of time, truth is, they've done nothing at AA (i.e., worked for the airline) to deserve being placed ahead of long time AA employees on the seniority list. TWA went bust, and so did their seniority. What's gone is gone.

I'd like to have all the money I ever paid in taxes back, but it's never going to happen either - what's gone is gone.

 

[FA Mikey]

How about doing the right thing

They did. Simply, they protected the seniority of their members at the time. APFA responsibility was to its dues paying members, not the IAM's members.

 

[STAAPLED]

Sorry Wing, but we don't agree. An injustice was done right from the beginning to our group and long lasting and devastating harm was done. If your argument had any merit, then why was our work group the only one during the merger to not get any seniority?

You can justify the staple job any way you like, but in the end, a grave injustice was done and as a result of what happened to us, no other airline work group will have to endure a staple job again.

 

[kirkpatrick]

truth is, they've done nothing at AA (i.e., worked for the airline)

How long did Trans Carib FA's work for AA prior to being given DOH?
How long did Western work for Delta?
How long did National work for Pan Am?
How long did Republic work for Northwest?
How long did Ozark work for TWA?
How long did Pan Am Pacific work for United?
How long did Pan Am Atlantic work for Delta?
How long did Northwest work for Delta?
How long did any of the employees of the thirty or so acquisitions in the past thirty years work for the acquiring company prior to being acquired?
Before you mention financial condition, in how many of the past thirty mergers were both airlines on equal financial footing?
I really don't want to rehash this. You got your way, and will probably prevail. The cost of that is now you have to live with the reputation it earned you.

MK

 

[Bob Owens]

How about doing the right thing APFA? This injustice is going to be exposed over and over again. It will never go away until all parties involved in this travesty takes his/her last breath on this earth. The APFA is being urged to do the right thing and start acting like a true union. We are not asking for "your" seniority, we just want "our" seniority. Stay tuned for future events.





"I feel badly about this," said APFA president Laura Glading. "I don't blame them for being angry. I don't blame them for being disappointed. I don't blame them for being frustrated." However, "it would be an impossible egg to unscramble," she said. "There are people who made life decisions based on their seniority. To undo eight years' worth of seniority, that's just not going to happen."

The demonstrators said they have no beef with American, which accepted the unions' decisions about how they would integrate the TWA flight attendants, pilots, mechanics and other workers with American employees.


"Most of us are older, and we're at the end of our careers, and we keep getting furloughed," she said.

[/b]

I'm hesitant to comment on this but here we go again:

What happened to the TWA employees was an injustice, but it was an injustice caused by systemic faults in the way airline workers organize themselves. Our faulty structure leaves us vulnerable to corporate greed.

What about all those workers who fougt to keep our payrates up such as the ex-EAL workers? Didnt the TWA workers and everyone else in the industry benifit from the fact that they stopped Lorenzo from doing in 1989 what the industry did to us in 2002-3?

Now, some Ex- TWA workers are saying that its not fair that their new employer doesnt throw these Ex-EAL workers, and ex-PanAM workers, who lost decades of seniority when their former employers ceased to exist and who have put in as much as 19 years at AA,out on the street in order to keep them employed.

The saddest part is they dont blame the company that promised them a job and laid them off, they blame their coworkers for not letting Ex-TWA workers come in from another carrier and step over them!

The fact is the Unions made a decision on integration based upon the expressed will of the dues paying members they had.

So sad to see such a pro-company mentality coming from the very victims of corporate greed. They were victimized by Carl Ichann and now Gerald Arpey yet they absolve them and lash out at others for not being willing to stand in front of them and say "fire me instead".

 

[MCI transplant]

<_< ------ At this point in time, the only fair, for both groups, thing to do, is what should have been done from the vary beginning, is to give them a percentage of their Seniority. I would suggest 50%, but that could be worked out between them.---------- As it is, they're correct. This injustice can not stand! And should go down in the Union's Hall of Shame as the worst travesty in the History of Unionism!!!--------- Just one man's opinion!

 

[FA Mikey]

If the union proposed and offered it up for a vote, what would the outcome be? It would be a straight company and former company line vote, something like, 16,000 no and 4000 yes.

 

[MCI transplant]

I'm hesitant to comment on this but here we go again:

What happened to the TWA employees was an injustice, but it was an injustice caused by systemic faults in the way airline workers organize themselves. Our faulty structure leaves us vulnerable to corporate greed.

What about all those workers who fougt to keep our payrates up such as the ex-EAL workers? Didnt the TWA workers and everyone else in the industry benifit from the fact that they stopped Lorenzo from doing in 1989 what the industry did to us in 2002-3?

Now, some Ex- TWA workers are saying that its not fair that their new employer doesnt throw these Ex-EAL workers, and ex-PanAM workers, who lost decades of seniority when their former employers ceased to exist and who have put in as much as 19 years at AA,out on the street in order to keep them employed.

The saddest part is they dont blame the company that promised them a job and laid them off, they blame their coworkers for not letting Ex-TWA workers come in from another carrier and step over them!

The fact is the Unions made a decision on integration based upon the expressed will of the dues paying members they had.

So sad to see such a pro-company mentality coming from the very victims of corporate greed. They were victimized by Carl Ichann and now Gerald Arpey yet they absolve them and lash out at others for not being willing to stand in front of them and say "fire me instead".

<_< ------Bob, I hear what your saying, and this isn't an easy subject to approach, but we as exTWaers could have used those same arguments when we acquired Ozark. ------- We didn't! we did the right thing and recognized their Seniority! --------- These people deserve no less! This injustice has gone on long enough!-------- Give them back their dignity!

 

[Hopeful]

This argument will never end. AA bought TWA in 4/10/01. I work with former TWA mechanics who actually believe they should be getting the AA calculated pension for ALL their TWA time let alone all their TWA seniority.

Seriously, do you think think this is fair? What happened may or may not be fair depending where one stands. But the bottom line is that, as in the case of the Kasher ruling, we all know how the calculation was made with respect to seniority.

As in the case of the pilots, f/a's, and agents, I believe the legal course was taken and ruled on.

We like to be reminded how the TWA people were treated. but rarely do we ask ourselves about the native AAers who were hired and not acquired.

 

[aafsc]

<_< ------Bob, I hear what your saying, and this isn't an easy subject to approach, but we as exTWaers could have used those same arguments when we acquired Ozark. ------- We didn't! we did the right thing and recognized their Seniority! --------- These people deserve no less! This injustice has gone on long enough!-------- Give them back their dignity!

Get real! The TWA people did not give Ozark people their seniority "out of the goodness of their heart" or "fairness". Ozark people had labor protection provisions in their contract in the event of a merger; that is why they got what they got in the TWA/Ozark merger; the TWA people did NOT want to give them their seniority. The TWA unions waived their protections in order to facilitate AA's purchase of TWA's assets because TWA was a day or two from shutting the doors forever putting ALL TWA employees on the street. The APFA did what was required by law; to protect it's dues paying members at the time. If the APFA caves into the ex-TWA F/As demands and gives them their TWA seniority, it is almost certain that the nAAtive F/As would file a DFR suit against the APFA. It these ex-TWA F/As are so angry, they should go after the IAM; not AA and certainly not APFA. The horse left the barn in 2001; these people need to move on. It's over, it has been over for a very long time. Why don't they just retire?

 

[STAAPLED]

If the union proposed and offered it up for a vote, what would the outcome be? It would be a straight company and former company line vote, something like, 16,000 no and 4000 yes.

You're right about the outcome if it were to be brought up for a vote. The APFA got away with the staple job...........until now.

What I really can't understand, from a union point of view, is how the APFA did this to us, but would never allow it to happen to them. It's a contradiction in union principles. But then again no other F/A union agreed with our staple job either. The APFA has now become the poster child for unethical union principles.


Greedy APFA leaders beware, the staapled folk are gathering pitchforks and headed your way!

 

[FA Mikey]

They properly represented the dues paying members. They continue to do so. There is no contradiction in union principles, they are bound to represent their dues paying members.

 

[Ralph]

Just a reminder...NO personal remarks/attacks/comments. Discuss the issue, not the member. Time off will be given and your post deleted without further comment if you choose to ignore this warning.