F/A Crew Scheduling Strikes Again

[jimntx]

I had a turn on the 29th and a 2-day on the 30-31st. I already had a high-time turn plotted on 01JAN (I'm on Availability in January). Due to ATC delays, I got back too late on the 29th and lost my 2-day on the 30th. Put myself on make-up for pay protection.

At 1210 on the 30th, Crew Scheduling called and offered me a turn for 31st which I accepted. A few minutes later she called back and said, "By the way, that turn on the 31st will make you illegal for your turn on 01JAN. Do you still want it? (She had only given me the sign-in time and the route when she called the first time.)"

There were 5 people on the MU list for today. I was the most junior. Not only were there turns in Open Time that would have made me still legal for my trip on the 1st that were assigned AFTER I was called, I find it interesting that the only trip they had to offer me would make me illegal for my high-time turn in my availability month. You will not convince me that they did not know that I would refuse the MU trip and lose my pay protection in order to protect my hours in my Availability month.

Sorry, Gar. Don't believe that someone over there isn't looking at this stuff and trying to break guarantees and/or pay protection whenever possible. You are going to say that "We don't look at that. All we look at is available trips and the people on MU. " Yeah, right. Whoever was working MU managed to contact all 4 people ahead of me in less than 10 minutes (BTW, none of them were assigned trips for today, but two of them senior to me still have their pay protection for December). But, she was able to offer me a bad trip, and remove me from pay protection.

Thanks a lot, Crew Scheduling. Hope others are as considerate to you in the New Year.

 

[FA Mikey]

Put yourself on makeup, and turn off the rigger. You are not on RSV and have no obligation to answer. Then you are off and pay protected.

 

[jimntx]

Are you sure? I thought if you were on Pay Protection MU that you HAD to answer the phone. If not, thanks for letting me know. Lesson learned for the future.

 

[FA Mikey]

What I said might be construed as a fraud, so you shouldn't put your name on the MU list with no intent to take a call from CS. But, if you don't get the call because of service problems, in a tunnel ETC. You will not be penalized

 

[AC AA LA FA]

Put yourself on makeup, and turn off the rigger. You are not on RSV and have no obligation to answer. Then you are off and pay protected.

..your GAUR is pay protected...

 

[AAStew]

Jim,
The others are correct you are not penalized if you miss the call or don't get it in time...

 

[NewHampshire Black Bears]

jimntx,

Another of my ol' granny's sayings...................."Where there's a WILL, there's a WAY" !!

 

[Garfield1966]

Put yourself on makeup, and turn off the rigger. You are not on RSV and have no obligation to answer. Then you are off and pay protected.

Wrong

What I said might be construed as a fraud, so you shouldn't put your name on the MU list with no intent to take a call from CS. But, if you don't get the call because of service problems, in a tunnel ETC. You will not be penalized

Wrong

Jim,
The others are correct you are not penalized if you miss the call or don't get it in time...

Wrong


For last 5 day protection you must not only put your self on MU but you MUST answer the phone AND pick up a trip that falls with in your obligation window. If you fail to answer the phone or answer the phone and do not want what ever trip you are obligated for you will loose your sequence protection.

I love it when someone calls and says they "were told ....." and I ask if she/he was told this by crew skd. "Well, no.... ". Yea, that's what I thought.



Jim, what was your obligation window? Were any of the other trips with in that window (most do not want to fly anything unless they are required to by their obligation. Perhaps the crew skd assumed this was the case with you)? Did you ask if there were any other trips other than the one you were offered (if you did and we lied, it's a pay claim and that crew skd will get in trouble)? Are there some I work with who are out to get you? Perhaps. By doing so they place their job as risk. Unlike you guys, we do not have a union to protect those who slack off or screw up too often. We are well aware of how easily we can be canned. Do you really think we WANT top open up more trips on the 1st or 2nd? The over lap already put more than 1,000 trips into open time. We are doing everything possible not to add more trips. I know you really want to believe that we are out to get you but 9 times out of 10 what ever we try and do to 'get you' will come back and bite us in the ass 10 times worse. It is not worth it for us.

Bottom line is we answer your questions. If you do not ask, we don't know what you want to know. We sometimes assume you know more than we think. If a turn is leaving later in the day we assume you know to ask how late it gets back because you have a early trip the next day. If you do not ask and you loose your trip the next day that is your problem not ours. I will tell you as I am ending the call that you are confirmed for trip "x" and you are off your trip for the 1st or what ever the situation is. Others assume that you have been flying for more than 2 days and know your legalities. Also, if you are on the MU list, how about taking a look at open time BEFORE we call you so you know what is there? We call for MU the same time 2 times a day. First round is at 12n the second round is at 1600. After that it is random. Any trip you pick up on MU is your responsibility. Don't get bent on us if you did not ask the right questions. They were busy as hell yesterday and do not have time to think of every question that you failed to ask and supply you with an answer. We don't care what you work. You obviously do so ASK.

And by the way, don't listen to the folks above since they do not have the right answers.

I really do not know how to say this but we really do not care. Even for those few on my sh1t list I still play by the rules. You folks are not worth my job, no matter how pissed off I am at you.

 

[Garfield1966]

..your GAUR is pay protected...

Last 5 day protection has nothing to do with your Guar. It has to do with sequence protection and if you do not do as I indicated above, your sequence protection will be lost.

I guess the other option is to assume that I am wrong and listen to the folks above. Let me know how that works out for you. Pay Comp and I will be busting sequence protection.

Decisions your's. I could not care less since my pay check will not be affected.

 

[FA Mikey]

You are not required to wait by your phone, like a reserve.

 

[Veritas]

If you do not ask and you loose your trip the next day that is your problem not ours. I will tell you as I am ending the call that you are confirmed for trip "x" and you are off your trip for the 1st or what ever the situation is.

Sorry, that is ethically and morally wrong. You should be up front about the conflict the make up trip has with the next month schedule, not just keep that information as a "Gotcha" for the end of the phone call.

I really do not know how to say this but we really do not care.

What a sad commentary on management labor relations. It is a lose, lose situation for all involved, schedulers and crew members.

 

[Garfield1966]

You are not required to wait by your phone, like a reserve.

Nope, you're not. You are more than welcome to call me up or send a high send prior to 12 noon and advise me to plot the lowest time trip you are obligated for (or what ever you want) and tell me to plot it on your schedule. That way when we get to your name and you are not home you will not loose your sequence protection. If you do not make contact with us and we have a trip that falls in your obligation window you loose your sequence protection.

Sorry, that is ethically and morally wrong. You should be up front about the conflict the make up trip has with the next month schedule, not just keep that information as a "Gotcha" for the end of the phone call.

Good grief. So you are not required to do know anything about your obligations and legalities? You have the option of saying no, I don't want that trip anytime during the phone call. All you need to do then is tell me "Oh, I did not know I would be removed, can I have that back?" Or "I just want something that will keep me legal for my AM sign in tomorrow." DO you need me to come over to your house and wash your hands for you after you eat as well? Your schedule, your contract. Take some responsibility for crying out loud. It's not a "gotcha". I am confirming what you should already know or should have asked prior to taking the trip.

What a sad commentary on management labor relations. It is a lose, lose situation for all involved, schedulers and crew members.

What I was saying is that we do not care about "getting even" or revenge, or grudges or any of that crap. We come in and do our job. If you call in sick, don't want a trip on MU, do want a trip on MU, we do not care. Whether we bust your seq protection or not is not high on our priority list.. If you do not meet the requirements, we are required to bust your sequence protection (not like we get commission), if you fly you keep your sequence protection. If you take a trip that removes you from your next trip, great, if you don't, great. We do not care. The choice is yours to make and we have no say in it. We execute the contract to the best of our ability. Whether or not you like it is not relevant. You have certain obligations, we have certain obligations.

 

[kuro_kuma]

I guess it depends on what the obligation on both side. I havent worked a pay protected flt in almost a decade so I was wondering. What if you lose a trip, go on MU and give the cs a heads up that you want a trip that comes in early enough to work your next trip? Will you still get called for one that messes up your next day's trip or if that same trip was the only thing available, you wouldnt get called and automatically lose your protection because youre trip specific (Even if it's a trip, I would assume would help the operation, and not drop a new years trip back into open time)? Will cs be obligated to put a conflicting trip on there? In this situation, it sounds like there were better options but you'd have to look at the open time list to see what else was there at the time of the call.

Also, for non pay protected flts..if ur flt is cancelled, you're supposed to go on MU or you get a MA or missed trip if something comes up, right? What if you run into the same situation where your following trip has to be kept in mind. I always get different answers depending on who calls me, like one being, if you have a 2d trip, you don't have to take a turn (but at that point there's a choice to do so)or something that conflicts so you don't have to take just anything (within reason). Seems like I usually find out when a long standing rule has finally changed when I'm caught in the situation then it's like....really?

 

[Garfield1966]

A lot of different scenarios with out enough info.

Jim was in a last 5 days of the month situation. Your first question is a bit gray. I look at the FA's obligation and see if I even have any trips that meet the obligaion. If they told me to plot one of those trips then I plot and move on. If they made no contact I will call. If their made contact but the trips I have that they are obligated for I will still call (not sure if I have too or not). If you do not answer the phone I will typically will finish that round of MU to allow you time to contact me, if I do not hear from you, I bust Seq protection and move on. This month always supersedes next month so if you want a trip that makes you illegal for your next trip, that is your choice not ours and yes you will get called for any trip you are legal for, whether it screws up our operation or not. That is not something you have to care about, it's our problem.


For a Xcled flt out side of the last five days you need to check open time between 10 and 12n (I think, check your contract on that one) and if you see something you are legal for and want it, call us and we will plot, if you do not call and you are legal for something I have open at 12n I will bust your guarantee. Not aware of a MA being issued for that.

The only time we do not care about your next trip is at the end of the month, out side of that, we will never plot or offer a trip on MU that makes you illegal for your next trip. If operational needs require, we can offer/low man a reassignment to cover a trip.

There are so many different scenarios that if there is one variance that you were not aware of the last time it happened, you could get a different answer that is still correct for that given instance. The other possibility is that you got one of the dumb asses on the floor who could not schedule their way out of a paper bag. Either is a possibility but I believe the former is more likely than the latter.

 

[kuro_kuma]

I always try to request a trip in open time when it happens, but usually there isnt one or if I know I'm going to be illegal put a hisend in advance just in case. Once, I called cs and because there was nothing in there at the time on the same day my trip cancelled and was told it was the end of my obligation to take another trip. Although I heard there's a 3 (or 4) hour window otherwise to wait around when another f/a got penalized for not taking one after his trip cancelled and didnt put himself on makeup. I swear it was a missed trip since it was beyond just losing his guarantee. I usually have to try to make it up anyway, so I basically sit reserve and what my obligation is doesn't matter to me either way.