You have to remember there are reports of a large number of F/A''s taking retirement. That will change the actual number of furloughs.
F/A Furloughs and How are they Caculated?
- Thread starter MiAAmi
- Start date
Does anyone know under this new T/A how the company intends to do these furloughs? Does the 2391 head count come out of the 23751 F/A''s or the 19000+ Active F/A''s?
Is the company taking into account attrition with these numbers?
I have also heard that the APA agreement says the pilot furloughs will be approximately 200 a month. Can Anyone verify this?
Any info anyone has would greatly be appreciated.
Is the company taking into account attrition with these numbers?
I have also heard that the APA agreement says the pilot furloughs will be approximately 200 a month. Can Anyone verify this?
Any info anyone has would greatly be appreciated.
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On 4/25/2003 7
11 PM MiAAmi wrote:
You have to remember there are reports of a large number of F/A''s taking retirement. That will change the actual number of furloughs.
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I agree but what I am wondering is if the company is wanting the current number of active line flight attendants being just over 19 thousand when this agreement was being negotiated or were the numbers that were on Overage Leaves also taken into consideration? One would hope that the overage leaves were taken into consideration when these head counts were being caculated but then again this is AA we are talking about.On 4/25/2003 7
11 PM MiAAmi wrote:You have to remember there are reports of a large number of F/A''s taking retirement. That will change the actual number of furloughs.
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I think it will take a few months for the dust to settle before the final numbers are out. For one thing, the 2391 number fails to take into consideration the "overlap" in some of the headcount reductions for various give-backs. As for OVL''s, all will be offered the opportunity to either stay on leave under the new conditions, or come back to the line. Some will obviously choose to quit. Some of the work rule changes will take time to implement.
So what I''m saying is I don''t expect to see a huge ax fall right away. I tend to think furloughs will occur a few hundred every couple of months as the things mentioned above take place.
Staying out of BK may have bought us juniors a few months. Let''s continue to watch two main things: attrition and the economy.
MK
So what I''m saying is I don''t expect to see a huge ax fall right away. I tend to think furloughs will occur a few hundred every couple of months as the things mentioned above take place.
Staying out of BK may have bought us juniors a few months. Let''s continue to watch two main things: attrition and the economy.
MK
The pilot deal calls for a MOAB (Mother of all Bids)in May. Supposedly it will look at the manning requirements for next may or june (approx) then it will assign via displacements into those positions. People will be re-trained into their new position via some new plan that will be the most effecient and cost effective. Most likely close to their recurrent training date. You will know where and what you will fly with the results of the MOAB and will most likely stay in your seat until they can get to you. Rumor has it that there could be a relatively large group to go initially and that the shool house can only train about 200 a month, that is why the drawn out furlough session.
I am not sure how the FA''s will work since there wont be a whole lot of re-training like the pilots go through. If I am correct most junior FA''s are already checked out on all the aircraft, yes?
Might be wise to watch how USAir does their 890 FA''s. I know for the pilots, since we are only checked out on 1 aircraft at a time, it would create a severe hardship/shortage to drop 2500 all at once, simply because that will create a lot of empty seats and the pilts needed to fill them will come from other aircraft. The training time is about 1 month when switching aircraft.
Hope that sheds some light on it.
I am not sure how the FA''s will work since there wont be a whole lot of re-training like the pilots go through. If I am correct most junior FA''s are already checked out on all the aircraft, yes?
Might be wise to watch how USAir does their 890 FA''s. I know for the pilots, since we are only checked out on 1 aircraft at a time, it would create a severe hardship/shortage to drop 2500 all at once, simply because that will create a lot of empty seats and the pilts needed to fill them will come from other aircraft. The training time is about 1 month when switching aircraft.
Hope that sheds some light on it.
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On 4/25/2003 6
32 PM Flyboy4u wrote:
Does anyone know under this new T/A how the company intends to do these furloughs? Does the 2391 head count come out of the 23751 F/A''s or the 19000+ Active F/A''s?
Is the company taking into account attrition with these numbers?
I have also heard that the APA agreement says the pilot furloughs will be approximately 200 a month. Can Anyone verify this?
Any info anyone has would greatly be appreciated.
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On 4/25/2003 6
32 PM Flyboy4u wrote: Does anyone know under this new T/A how the company intends to do these furloughs? Does the 2391 head count come out of the 23751 F/A''s or the 19000+ Active F/A''s?
Is the company taking into account attrition with these numbers?
I have also heard that the APA agreement says the pilot furloughs will be approximately 200 a month. Can Anyone verify this?
Any info anyone has would greatly be appreciated.
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I was under the impression that it''ll go by seniority, so it wouldn''t matter if you''re active or not. If you''re on OL and the numbers hit your seniority you''re gone, so I believe it''ll be from the headcount of 23751. remember, there are junior people out on OL too.
I''ve heard that there has been about 40-60 retirements a month since January, maybe more by May and june, plus you have to count the recently passed away FAs (I''ve seen about 10 so far the past 2 months in the HI6Bs).
Total attrition systemwide so far this year:
Jan - 44
Feb - 62
Mar - 75
Let''s hope those numbers keep going up and up.
MK
Jan - 44
Feb - 62
Mar - 75
Let''s hope those numbers keep going up and up.
MK
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On 4/26/2003 4:06:05 PM xsqueezeme wrote:
On 4/26/2003 4:06:05 PM xsqueezeme wrote:
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a month since January, maybe more by May and june, plus you have to count the recently passed away FAs (I''ve seen about 10 so far the past 2 months in the HI6Bs).
NO, NO Look! They really are counting dead stewardesses! See... LOL.
a month since January, maybe more by May and june, plus you have to count the recently passed away FAs (I''ve seen about 10 so far the past 2 months in the HI6Bs).
NO, NO Look! They really are counting dead stewardesses! See... LOL.
TWAnr
Veteran
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On 4/26/2003 11:29:05 PM AAStew wrote:
NO, NO Look! They really are counting dead stewardesses! See... LOL.
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I''ll be darned. You are right. If it wasn''t so morbid, it would be hilarious.On 4/26/2003 11:29:05 PM AAStew wrote:
NO, NO Look! They really are counting dead stewardesses! See... LOL.
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OMG we are counting dead stewardesess.....desperate time call for desperate measures! Good luck y''all!
TWAnr
Veteran
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On 4/26/2003 1138 PM AAStew wrote:
OMG we are counting dead stewardesess.....desperate time call for desperate measures! Good luck y''all!
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Not dead. Retirements and terminations.On 4/26/2003 11
38 PM AAStew wrote:OMG we are counting dead stewardesess.....desperate time call for desperate measures! Good luck y''all!
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TWAnr
It is kind of morbid, but everyone does it who is at the bottom of the seniority list. I think in the past 10 years less than 200 f/a''s have retired, so the only way to gain more seniority was for someone to die. It is kind of a joke between us. Remember, we had the world''s oldest living stewardess more or less forced into retirement 2 years ago, she was 74.
It is kind of morbid, but everyone does it who is at the bottom of the seniority list. I think in the past 10 years less than 200 f/a''s have retired, so the only way to gain more seniority was for someone to die. It is kind of a joke between us. Remember, we had the world''s oldest living stewardess more or less forced into retirement 2 years ago, she was 74.
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On 4/26/2003 11:43:41 PM AAStew wrote:
TWAnr
It is kind of morbid, but everyone does it who is at the bottom of the seniority list. I think in the past 10 years less than 200 f/a''s have retired, so the only way to gain more seniority was for someone to die. It is kind of a joke between us. Remember, we had the world''s oldest living stewardess more or less forced into retirement 2 years ago, she was 74.
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On 4/26/2003 11:43:41 PM AAStew wrote:
TWAnr
It is kind of morbid, but everyone does it who is at the bottom of the seniority list. I think in the past 10 years less than 200 f/a''s have retired, so the only way to gain more seniority was for someone to die. It is kind of a joke between us. Remember, we had the world''s oldest living stewardess more or less forced into retirement 2 years ago, she was 74.
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actually, it was not meant to be a ha-ha type of hilarious, and you do have to consider the deaths in the final headcount...unless they''re still elible to cast in a YES vote, then the APFA will demand that their names not be taken out of the headcount. You''ll never know when you may need those 10-20 "dead" votes in crunch time.
now, do we have to take into account the Mostly Dead and the Nearly Dead? y''know the ones, and I just met one last week...I asked her what she thought of the TA voting and her reply was "what TA vote? are they changing our contract?" she then pulls out her APFA contract from her totebag. I nearly fell when I saw that she was carrying the OLD blue contract (pre-2001 version). forgiveable? maybe, considering she may have been flying PT the past 25 years...
MK:
How did you ever think avoiding BK would save some of our junior jobs for a while? And that attrition thing again. I hope your bubble hasn't burst. And the majority of leave takers are returning Oct./Nov. to boot. Did you vote "yes" again?
How did you ever think avoiding BK would save some of our junior jobs for a while? And that attrition thing again. I hope your bubble hasn't burst. And the majority of leave takers are returning Oct./Nov. to boot. Did you vote "yes" again?
TWAnr
Veteran
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On 4/29/2003 10:59:54 PM gina wrote:
And the majority of leave takers are returning Oct./Nov. to boot.
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The following was included in this evening''s Jane Allen''s hotline special update: "...we will be canceling current Overage Leaves effective July 1, and we will open a new proffer today for Overage Leaves that will begin on July 2."On 4/29/2003 10:59:54 PM gina wrote:
And the majority of leave takers are returning Oct./Nov. to boot.
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