Flight Attendant Seasonal Furloughs

[jimntx]

Well, the number taking the PLOA turns out to be 75 systemwide. Is anyone surprised? Could there have been many more than that left who could afford to take 3 months off?

I said back in 2003 when JW (or the BOD depending on whose talking) gave up furlough pay that he/they had opened us up to seasonal furloughs. The company hasn't needed to do that before now. However, with a projected overage of 400-500 f/as for the 1st quarter and only 75 PLOAs, does anyone doubt that the next step will be furloughs?

Keep in mind that as long as the total number being furloughed is less than 500, and the number being furloughed from LGA or ORD is less than 250 each, no WARN acts kick in. Under our contract, the company only has to give the union 30 day's notice of a furlough. The contract does not even specify that the company has to notify the flight attendants subject to furlough.

If no one was willing to take the PLOA, can anyone think that there will be a mad rush to sign up for an OLOA or take the "modified" partnership flying? (Assuming that the company is willing to offer the "modified" version again.)

If the people just called back 01DEC get furloughed again, I think we will begin to see a shredding of the bottom of the seniority list. I know that if I am furloughed (strong possibility...right now, I'm about 300 from the bottom of the active list), I will probably not come back. I'm only about 15 months from full Social Security; so, I just need to find some kind of a job to last me until then. As those of us on the bottom do not come back, the reserve numbers are going to go more senior faster than they are already, and the number subject to furlough with each seasonal layoff will become more senior.

I am Sept. 2000 hire date. I wonder how senior the furloughs and the reserve list will have to go before the union and the senior f/as (25+ years) begin to notice?

 

[s80dude]

a Overage Leave is more appealing than a PLOA, so I think that more people would take that.... you lose more on a PLOA.... I am trying to remain Optimistic. It's hard these days.

Well, the number taking the PLOA turns out to be 75 systemwide. Is anyone surprised? Could there have been many more than that left who could afford to take 3 months off?

I said back in 2003 when JW (or the BOD depending on whose talking) gave up furlough pay that he/they had opened us up to seasonal furloughs. The company hasn't needed to do that before now. However, with a projected overage of 400-500 f/as for the 1st quarter and only 75 PLOAs, does anyone doubt that the next step will be furloughs?

Keep in mind that as long as the total number being furloughed is less than 500, and the number being furloughed from LGA or ORD is less than 250 each, no WARN acts kick in. Under our contract, the company only has to give the union 30 day's notice of a furlough. The contract does not even specify that the company has to notify the flight attendants subject to furlough.

If no one was willing to take the PLOA, can anyone think that there will be a mad rush to sign up for an OLOA or take the "modified" partnership flying? (Assuming that the company is willing to offer the "modified" version again.)

If the people just called back 01DEC get furloughed again, I think we will begin to see a shredding of the bottom of the seniority list. I know that if I am furloughed (strong possibility...right now, I'm about 300 from the bottom of the active list), I will probably not come back. I'm only about 15 months from full Social Security; so, I just need to find some kind of a job to last me until then. As those of us on the bottom do not come back, the reserve numbers are going to go more senior faster than they are already, and the number subject to furlough with each seasonal layoff will become more senior.

I am Sept. 2000 hire date. I wonder how senior the furloughs and the reserve list will have to go before the union and the senior f/as (25+ years) begin to notice?

 

[jimntx]

If the PLOA was for 6 months or more, yes that would be true. However, on a 3-month leave like this one, you don't lose anything really...not even seniority...unless you were already on a leave that had lasted 3 months or longer.

 

[damajagua]

Well, the number taking the PLOA turns out to be 75 systemwide. Is anyone surprised? Could there have been many more than that left who could afford to take 3 months off?

I said back in 2003 when JW (or the BOD depending on whose talking) gave up furlough pay that he/they had opened us up to seasonal furloughs. The company hasn't needed to do that before now. However, with a projected overage of 400-500 f/as for the 1st quarter and only 75 PLOAs, does anyone doubt that the next step will be furloughs?

Keep in mind that as long as the total number being furloughed is less than 500, and the number being furloughed from LGA or ORD is less than 250 each, no WARN acts kick in. Under our contract, the company only has to give the union 30 day's notice of a furlough. The contract does not even specify that the company has to notify the flight attendants subject to furlough.

If no one was willing to take the PLOA, can anyone think that there will be a mad rush to sign up for an OLOA or take the "modified" partnership flying? (Assuming that the company is willing to offer the "modified" version again.)

If the people just called back 01DEC get furloughed again, I think we will begin to see a shredding of the bottom of the seniority list. I know that if I am furloughed (strong possibility...right now, I'm about 300 from the bottom of the active list), I will probably not come back. I'm only about 15 months from full Social Security; so, I just need to find some kind of a job to last me until then. As those of us on the bottom do not come back, the reserve numbers are going to go more senior faster than they are already, and the number subject to furlough with each seasonal layoff will become more senior.

I am Sept. 2000 hire date. I wonder how senior the furloughs and the reserve list will have to go before the union and the senior f/as (25+ years) begin to notice?



Where did you get the information that only 75 f/as took the PLOA?

 

[Skymess]

Well, the number taking the PLOA turns out to be 75 systemwide. Is anyone surprised? Could there have been many more than that left who could afford to take 3 months off?



I am Sept. 2000 hire date. I wonder how senior the furloughs and the reserve list will have to go before the union and the senior f/as (25+ years) begin to notice?

The results came out 30NOV. They need the overage taken care of by 1JAN which meant that if they were going that route they would have had the WARN letters mailed on 1DEC. Right? Can they start overage leaves or furloughs mid month?

They claimed that they would alleviate the overage by giving bid leaves for the 3 month period. I can't imagine that 400 or so people will take a bid leave for 3 months if they wouldn't take a leave of absense.

The question is what do they do now????

 

[jimntx]

Where did you get the information that only 75 f/as took the PLOA?

From the APFA. And, I called a couple of people in management I know. None of them denied the number, but since herself has not yet announced the results on the Flight Service website, they were afraid to say anything for sure.

 

[jimntx]

The results came out 30NOV. They need the overage taken care of by 1JAN which meant that if they were going that route they would have had the WARN letters mailed on 1DEC. Right? Can they start overage leaves or furloughs mid month?

They claimed that they would alleviate the overage by giving bid leaves for the 3 month period. I can't imagine that 400 or so people will take a bid leave for 3 months if they wouldn't take a leave of absense.

The question is what do they do now????

Sky, go back and read my original post in this thread. As long as the number being furloughed is 499 or less, they don't have to send out WARN letters. They only have to notify the APFA 30 days prior to the furlough date. They could leave me a note in my mailbox at work to tell me I'm toast. If they notifiy the union, they do have to offer overage leaves and the other furlough mitigation options, such as partnership flying, but the timeframe to proffer would be very short in this case.

And, as you say, if they can only get 75 people to take the PLOA, then I don't see 400 people taking bid leaves certainly not for full months. They might get some to take a week or two, but full months? I think we have reached the bottom of the barrel when it comes to people that can afford to take unpaid leaves.

Oh, and they don't have to have the overage covered by 01JAN. They just said there was an overage for the first quarter. There will still be some holiday travel to contend with in the early part of January. Besides, as far as we know, the company may have already notified the APFA of the furlough number and date. There is also no requirement that the union tell us as soon as they know.

They can start furloughs any day that is convenient for them. There are no contractual restrictions. In fact, if they just declare an emergency, they can furlough immediately and without notice. The contract does define emergency to some extent, but one of the definitions is a temporary cessation of work. The company gets to define how long is temporary and what constitutes a cessation of work.

 

[damajagua]

Sky, go back and read my original post in this thread. As long as the number being furloughed is 499 or less, they don't have to send out WARN letters. They only have to notify the APFA 30 days prior to the furlough date. They could leave me a note in my mailbox at work to tell me I'm toast. If they notifiy the union, they do have to offer overage leaves and the other furlough mitigation options, such as partnership flying, but the timeframe to proffer would be very short in this case.

And, as you say, if they can only get 75 people to take the PLOA, then I don't see 400 people taking bid leaves certainly not for full months. They might get some to take a week or two, but full months? I think we have reached the bottom of the barrel when it comes to people that can afford to take unpaid leaves.

Oh, and they don't have to have the overage covered by 01JAN. They just said there was an overage for the first quarter. There will still be some holiday travel to contend with in the early part of January. Besides, as far as we know, the company may have already notified the APFA of the furlough number and date. There is also no requirement that the union tell us as soon as they know.

They can start furloughs any day that is convenient for them. There are no contractual restrictions. In fact, if they just declare an emergency, they can furlough immediately and without notice. The contract does define emergency to some extent, but one of the definitions is a temporary cessation of work. The company gets to define how long is temporary and what constitutes a cessation of work.

Stop worrying about a situation that is totally out your control.....Neither the company or the union have said anything about furlough.

 

[JFK Fleet Service]

Stop worrying about a situation that is totally out your control.....Neither the company or the union have said anything about furlough.

LOL! Tell me the last time AA has missed an opportunity to furlough employees?

 

[Skymess]

Sky, go back and read my original post in this thread. As long as the number being furloughed is 499 or less, they don't have to send out WARN letters. They only have to notify the APFA 30 days prior to the furlough date. They could leave me a note in my mailbox at work to tell me I'm toast. If they notifiy the union, they do have to offer overage leaves and the other furlough mitigation options, such as partnership flying, but the timeframe to proffer would be very short in this case.

I thought the 500 thing was the law for giving you 90 days notice. Are you sure they aren't obligated to send you a 30 day letter in the mail? I thought it was law?

Oh, and they don't have to have the overage covered by 01JAN. They just said there was an overage for the first quarter.
They can start furloughs any day that is convenient for them. There are no contractual restrictions.

Interesting. I wouldn't put it past them then.

 

[jimntx]

Stop worrying about a situation that is totally out your control.....Neither the company or the union have said anything about furlough.

Obviously, posted by someone not subject to furlough. Rather typical of AA flight attendants from what I have seen in the past 9 years. "If it's not about me, it's not worth worrying about." Thanks so very much for your concern for junior flight attendants. Enjoy reserve. If you are less than 20 years, you may be on the receiving end of this kind of treatment much sooner than you think.

 

[jimntx]

I thought the 500 thing was the law for giving you 90 days notice. Are you sure they aren't obligated to send you a 30 day letter in the mail? I thought it was law?

No, there is no legal requirement that an employer give you any prior notice at all. A friend here in Dallas just returned last week from a month-long business trip to China. Yesterday, his boss walked in and told him he was laid off effective at the end of the workday. (Needless to say, all he got done for the rest of the day was make sure that his expense account was completed and submitted to the accounting department. The company owes him about $3000 for expenses he paid for while there. )

What you have confused (like a lot of people) is the Federal WARN act and the state equivalents (NY and IL) to that act.

The Federal WARN Act requires a 60-day notice if it is invoked. As I understand it, the layoff must affect 500 or more employees before the Federal law becomes active.

New York and Illinois have state equivalents to the Federal WARN act which require 90-day notice if 250 or more employees in one location in that state are being furloughed. Remember last Spring's furlough? It was not coincidental that the "overage" was 410. That was as high as they could go and have only 249 LGA f/as subject to furlough. Remember they insisted that LGA, EWR, and JFK were different bases for the purpose of the state act? Because if you counted the New York furloughs from all 3, the total was over 250.

Our contract states on page 187, Article 16, Section C, paragraph 6...
"Thirty (30) days prior to a planned reduction in force, the Company will notify the President of the APFA of the approximate number of Flight Attendants to be affected by the reduction in force and forward to the President of the APFA a list of Flight Attendants who may be subject to layoff."

Paragraph 7 only states that once the layoffs are complete, the company will provide the President of the APFA a list of the flight attendants furloughed, bases from which Flight Attendants were transferred or assigned under the "forced transfer" provisions, and the bases to which those forced transfers were sent.
(That would, of course, be only if forced transfers are required as they were in 2003.) The bolding and italics are mine, for emphasis.

Note that the individual flight attendants are not mentioned in any way as being notified by the company. So, unless the WARN acts get invoked, the company is not required to give individual notices. They may, but it is not required.

And, "in keeping with American's commitment to the environment"...if we are not supposed to print 2 square inches of receipt from the OSR unless the customer asks for it, do you think they will use up all those 8.5x11 sheets of paper for furlough notices if not required?

 

[damajagua]

Obviously, posted by someone not subject to furlough. Rather typical of AA flight attendants from what I have seen in the past 9 years. "If it's not about me, it's not worth worrying about." Thanks so very much for your concern for junior flight attendants. Enjoy reserve. If you are less than 20 years, you may be on the receiving end of this kind of treatment much sooner than you think.

No. not all. Its just having an attitude of living in the present. Live for the moment.
I can not worry about what might or might not happen tomorrow.
This is the problem with so many people they either live in the past or the future.
They forget to enjoy the present. Yesterday is history, tomorrow is a promise, today
is a gift. Start living your life like that you might enjoy it more.
Best wishes to you.

 

[Maark767]

Obviously, posted by someone not subject to furlough. Rather typical of AA flight attendants from what I have seen in the past 9 years. "If it's not about me, it's not worth worrying about." Thanks so very much for your concern for junior flight attendants. Enjoy reserve. If you are less than 20 years, you may be on the receiving end of this kind of treatment much sooner than you think.

Please stop playing the victim for once.
Your comment about ALL AA F/As stated about not worring about others really shows your ignorance.
How much longer will you be here???

 

[czerny]

For bottom half of the seniority, this is a constant worry because we have gone through furloughs more than once. This "involuntary overage leave" is a furlough dressed up in fancy clothes. So far, for those of us hired in 2001 or late 2000, we have stepped on and off the furlough merry go round a total of 3x.