USCREW
Veteran
What are your lines like, how/when do you bid and receive trip pairings, do you have an electronic trade board, and the reserve system?
F/A SCHEDULING
- Thread starter USCREW
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FA's receive printed bids on the 13th of each month. The bid is due on the 17th at 0900. Bids are available on-line at Flica.net on the 10th, but must be submitted via Maestro either at home or at the company.
FA's can choose to bid "high time" different ranges of time (hours) (there is no cap on hours flown on West) you can fly as high as you can get, with rest periods, etc into consideration. High time bidding begins on the 20th at 1800 and if you bid to be a high time bidder, you may add trips, change trips for greater value on same days, during this process. This lasts a few days.
ETB opens on the 24th of each month. Trips are picked up first come first served, trips may be traded with others via a password, trips may be given to a specific individual using a password, or trips may simply be posted for anyone to pick up with no passwords needed.
There is no seniority systems for adding trips to your line. All is first come first served. Bidding is awarded by seniority of course, but extra time from company open time and ETB are first come first served.
We bid every month.
They publish a packet of lines, and a pairing (trips) packet.
The packets become avail on the 13th at 9am, or a couple days earlier if you use the web-based Flica bid-sort program (paperless).
We input our choices into the automated SBS/Maestro system by 9am on the 17th.
It takes them a couple hours to run the program and then you can usually see what you were awarded, altho its not considered 'final' till the 19th @ 1800.
The 20th is the day for lineholders to "vacation drop" trips on either side of their core vacation days. Its a guaranteed drop, but you have to pick up at least the same amount of credit elsewhere on your line (before Low Time Company Adjust begins on the 24th, or else they'll pick something for you)
Also on the 20th, reserves w/vacay can move their DOs/GDs (reg days off and golden days off)
And then at 1800 on the 20th begins Low Time Self Adjust.
This is where FAs who have less than 70credits can get first crack at company open time, and pick something up, or trade for a higher value trip to come up to 70 or above.
This is done on the computer in "real time". The first one to click and process gets the trip.
Self Adjust ends at noon on the 24th and then the company starts adjusting.
The Relief or secondary bid process begins on the 24th.
Relief lines are awarded off the initial bid, and generally go junior. Never done it, not sure how it works, but it runs every day and you can bid for specific pairings or generically until you get up to 70cr or they run out of open time.
Also on the 24th @ 1800, the personal trade board opens and FAs can begin posting their trips and picking up from others. This is 'real time' on the computer.
You can give trips away until you are down to no less than 40cr. Or zero in a vacation month.
I think High Time also begins on the 24th, but I never do it, so not sure. But High Time is an option you mark on your bid sheet agreeing to pick up to a certain credit range (3 diff ranges avail) and by agreeing/promising to pick up from Open Time, then you get first crack before DPU open for everyone on the 28th.
On the 28th @ 1800 DPU (Drop Pick Up from company open time) opens. This is if you want to try and move your trips, or change them to something better.
On the 28th also AUTO begins. Authorized Unpaid Time Off.
This is if you just want to drop a trip completely off your line, even if you fall under 70cr, the program will allow it if staffing is OK for all days of the trip. You can AUTO down to 40cr. Or zero in a vacation month.
On these key days when certain processes begin, you will see FAs lining up at the computers early in the day.
Maestro can be accessed from home, but you wait in a que and then you are limited to I think 15mins, and sometimes you don't connect, etc.
So the serious schedule manipulaters always lurk all day at the airport the 24th and 28th.
The sooner you get any manipulating done, the better, it only takes a day or two for the whole month to become negatively staffed.
They publish a packet of lines, and a pairing (trips) packet.
The packets become avail on the 13th at 9am, or a couple days earlier if you use the web-based Flica bid-sort program (paperless).
We input our choices into the automated SBS/Maestro system by 9am on the 17th.
It takes them a couple hours to run the program and then you can usually see what you were awarded, altho its not considered 'final' till the 19th @ 1800.
The 20th is the day for lineholders to "vacation drop" trips on either side of their core vacation days. Its a guaranteed drop, but you have to pick up at least the same amount of credit elsewhere on your line (before Low Time Company Adjust begins on the 24th, or else they'll pick something for you)
Also on the 20th, reserves w/vacay can move their DOs/GDs (reg days off and golden days off)
And then at 1800 on the 20th begins Low Time Self Adjust.
This is where FAs who have less than 70credits can get first crack at company open time, and pick something up, or trade for a higher value trip to come up to 70 or above.
This is done on the computer in "real time". The first one to click and process gets the trip.
Self Adjust ends at noon on the 24th and then the company starts adjusting.
The Relief or secondary bid process begins on the 24th.
Relief lines are awarded off the initial bid, and generally go junior. Never done it, not sure how it works, but it runs every day and you can bid for specific pairings or generically until you get up to 70cr or they run out of open time.
Also on the 24th @ 1800, the personal trade board opens and FAs can begin posting their trips and picking up from others. This is 'real time' on the computer.
You can give trips away until you are down to no less than 40cr. Or zero in a vacation month.
I think High Time also begins on the 24th, but I never do it, so not sure. But High Time is an option you mark on your bid sheet agreeing to pick up to a certain credit range (3 diff ranges avail) and by agreeing/promising to pick up from Open Time, then you get first crack before DPU open for everyone on the 28th.
On the 28th @ 1800 DPU (Drop Pick Up from company open time) opens. This is if you want to try and move your trips, or change them to something better.
On the 28th also AUTO begins. Authorized Unpaid Time Off.
This is if you just want to drop a trip completely off your line, even if you fall under 70cr, the program will allow it if staffing is OK for all days of the trip. You can AUTO down to 40cr. Or zero in a vacation month.
On these key days when certain processes begin, you will see FAs lining up at the computers early in the day.
Maestro can be accessed from home, but you wait in a que and then you are limited to I think 15mins, and sometimes you don't connect, etc.
So the serious schedule manipulaters always lurk all day at the airport the 24th and 28th.
The sooner you get any manipulating done, the better, it only takes a day or two for the whole month to become negatively staffed.
USCREW
Veteran
I'll have to re-read your post several times before I get all the new lingo.
We also can AUTO portions of our trips throughout the month.
Say, your 3day begins w/a PHXLAX turn, but you don't want to do it.
A FA can fax in a paper form requesting the AUTO, and if staffing is OK, or there are lineholder FAs sitting "Gauranteed Reserve", they will take it off your line and let you know @ 4p the day before.
If you didn't get your fax in in time, you can call the day of the desired AUTO, beginning @ 1201 and they usually award the first few who are able to get thru.
If a lineholder has an irregular operation and their trip gets all messed up, they may get sent home and put on "Gauranteed Reserve" for the next day.
This means they will be gauranteed the credit of the trip/day, and guaranteed to be released by the original release time, but they'll give ya something else to do. If there's nothing in open time, they'll AUTO someone and give you their turn.
It's actually a money saver for the company.
Or, you can waive the guarantee and just take the day off.
I don't know too much about the reserve system, except that they get "tagged" a lot.
That's when scheduling adds something on to the trip they are currently out flying.
Usually, its just one of those turn someone AUTOed, but sometimes they get tagged with another overnight, extending their trip.
I know they really hate the tagging, and I would too, but again, its a big money saver for the company since they can AUTO someone at the top of the pay scale and replace them w/a reserve who's already getting paid their 70cr anyway, and at half the wage.
Say, your 3day begins w/a PHXLAX turn, but you don't want to do it.
A FA can fax in a paper form requesting the AUTO, and if staffing is OK, or there are lineholder FAs sitting "Gauranteed Reserve", they will take it off your line and let you know @ 4p the day before.
If you didn't get your fax in in time, you can call the day of the desired AUTO, beginning @ 1201 and they usually award the first few who are able to get thru.
If a lineholder has an irregular operation and their trip gets all messed up, they may get sent home and put on "Gauranteed Reserve" for the next day.
This means they will be gauranteed the credit of the trip/day, and guaranteed to be released by the original release time, but they'll give ya something else to do. If there's nothing in open time, they'll AUTO someone and give you their turn.
It's actually a money saver for the company.
Or, you can waive the guarantee and just take the day off.
I don't know too much about the reserve system, except that they get "tagged" a lot.
That's when scheduling adds something on to the trip they are currently out flying.
Usually, its just one of those turn someone AUTOed, but sometimes they get tagged with another overnight, extending their trip.
I know they really hate the tagging, and I would too, but again, its a big money saver for the company since they can AUTO someone at the top of the pay scale and replace them w/a reserve who's already getting paid their 70cr anyway, and at half the wage.
USCREW
Veteran
What is the reserve time in PHX and LAS? The east statistics are posted in the newsletter monthly. I don't remember seeing anything like that for the west. Are you getting any info concerning the integration of these two contracts? On the east, I've been told that things are moving at a snails pace; that it is just unbelievably frustratingly SLOW. Unimportant details are dragging talks, and major issues have not been resolved. No one believes that we can get everything done by the middle of next year.
If you mean how much are the reserves flying, I know they try to get them as close to 70 w/o going over.
But that is one of the big problems with our schedulers, they are very inconsistent with how they rotate the reserves thru. Some reserves end up over 70 and some end up very low, 50-60cr.
There is a big focus right now on the reserves, trying to fix some of the issues.
Doogie or mgmnt has been meeting them in the hot reserve room to hear their gripes.
The pilots are able to check where they fall on the list with a web based program, but FAs have no way to know where they are compared to others, and no one knows what "formula" schedulers use.
I don't think LAS reserves fly a lot.
I think they choose to be Vegas based because for lifestyle reasons, not because they need the money.
They are allowed to pick up PHX trips on their days off if they want. Both from DPU and personals.
As far as info relating to negotiations, I feel satisfied we are getting plenty of info.
I just this morning got the latest hotline in my email.
Usually at tleast everyother day on average they send one out. Sometimes more than one a day!
Todays hotline had info relating to the CWA conference which just concluded in Vegas, also info with whats going on at Northwest and Mesaba (both are getting the shaft from mgmnt and bankruptcy judges and are close to CHAOS)
AND this about negotiations:
" Negotiations Update
The AFA Merger Negotiations Committee met in caucus July 12-14 in Tempe and drafted proposals on two sections, Language of Destination/Origin (LOD/O) and Moving Expenses. Additionally, the committee began working on its proposal for Training.
AFA will present our proposals to company negotiators in Charlotte the week of July 18-20. A detailed review of these proposals will be included in next weeks update. "
We also get printed news letter in V-files, and the glossy one that comes out I think quarterly.
That one received some top honors at the conference.
Link to afa66 recent hotlines:
http://www.unionvoice.org/amer_west/all-msgs.html
http://www.unionvoice.org/amer_west/all-msgs.html
hp_fa
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LAS is currently only a reserve base for FA's. They usually have 20-30 FA's assigned there. Last I knew there were no invol's assigned there and some of the reserves there are fairly senior by West standards since they have chosen to live there and not need to commute to PHX for all their trips. They can be assigned trips in the normal reserve manner or be assigned to sit hot reserve at the airport. Most of them sit hot at night since that is when the operation most requires them and is most at risk for problems, especially after the last flight from PHX has left for LAS and no PHX reserves can then get there to cover the night operation.
The amount of hours has traditionally varied for reserves. They are guaranteed 70 hours of pay per month and the company tries hard not to pay for hours folks don't work. After that it varies but, as other have said, scheduling will often use reserves to allow more senior folks to auto and save money by paying the reserves less per flight hour then what the lineholders would be earning.
Hopefully this answered the question. There are terminology differences between East and West, so sometimes we need a bit more explanation of the question in order to answer it.
USCREW
Veteran
How long does it take to hold a line/block?
Do you have SAP (schedule adjustment period): a second bidding after the initial line, and before ETB?
Can you pass?
Do you have SAP (schedule adjustment period): a second bidding after the initial line, and before ETB?
Can you pass?
hp_fa
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When I left it was taking 2-3 years to hold a line. It will likely be getting much worse.
The closest thing they have to SAP is what West calls "High Time". West lines are built between 70-85 hours. You can also bid to fly High Time, where you agree to raise your minimum hours and get to go in and pickup trips that were not assigned when the blocks were first awarded (usually due to vacations, etc.) After the High Time period has passed trips go into Open Time, where anyone can pick them up or change their schedule, with provisos. If manning is critical there are restrictions on what you can do in Open Time. You can always add trips to your schedule, but you may not be able to drop trips or change trips if they aren't on the same days or are for less block time then what you would be turning in with the exchange. It does get complicated. Needless to say, the best trips remaining after the bid is awarded go to those who bid High Time.
The ETB (Electronic Trade Board is different. You can drop trips in there as long as someone picks them up in the trade. You can use this method to drop as low as 40 hours in a non-vacation month. You can always pick up trips in there as long as you are legal to do so with your existing schedule.
Reserves cannot pass. If you get called, you are going to work. If you call out sick after being called, you can get into trouble for not having called in sick first.
Generally, in a 30 day month, of the 18 days you are scheduled to fly as a reserve you will likely fly or sit hot reserve on 16 of those days. But that is a generalization and YMMV.
USCREW
Veteran
25 in PIT!2-3 years to hold a line!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
OMG!
In some of the east bases its SEVENTEEN years to hold a line. It's SIX years just to work here... if you have five your still on furlough!
Wow! Lets hope they take the best of both.
So I said to Betty this week....It must be nice to bid just once. She said " Oh no, I always bid three times, just in case."
Travelpro72
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I don't think either side should really study and become familiar with each others systems as boggling as they are. 🙄 Most of us still can't get it obviously. Ever see some in the crew room trying to SAP or do bids? again...... 🙄 . Like this stuff is new. I know east and west both have odd systems to each other. Here at east the company AND the union make it VERY complicated and to hold flexibility for top seniority.
USCREW
Veteran
If you "get it"...the east system currently is BEAUTIFUL. Maximum flexibility.
