F/A Seniority

[NYCDelta]

I'm curious; how (relatively) junior/senior was PDX when it was a domicile?

I can't remember. They had Asian flights and some domestic. I know we had some with a 1993 hire date there when the based closed in 2000.

 

[NYCDelta]

Yeah right, you wish. It will be DOH but it sickens me to think that if the roles were reversed, there's no doubt in my mind that Delta would staple US. No doubt at all.

Just curious as to why you think this. Delta has NEVER taken an ENTIRE group of F/A's and stapled them to the bottom of our seniority list-as AA did to TWA. Every merger/acquisition was looked at differently and handled in a different way. The one that I am most familiar with, being based in NYC, is the Pan Am "integration". And I will tell you, I have heard different views on that from the mouths of these same employees. Some have said it was completely unfair and they should have gotten all of their seniority. However, others have said they would rather get something, than have nothing at all. Delta "protected" the top 3,000 DL F/A's, then slotted one PA then 50 DL, etc. So, number 1 at PA was number 3001 at DL. Even some DL F/A's felt slighted. "What, only the top 3,000 are important?" was something I've heard often. The top 3,000 became known as the "sacred cows". I feel like no matter what course DL took, someone was gonna be unhappy. In the end, an arbitrator sided with DL and the PA lawsuit was thrown out.
I think what is "fair and equitable" to one person, is completely unfair to someone else. I'm sure the #1 F/A at AWA doesn't want DOH, but would rather have a "blended" system. This person will not even be in the top 1,000 once the lists are merged. But, most agree DOH is the way to go.
Regardless of what happens with DL and US make no mistake-the ONLY way AFA will get enough votes to represent the entire F/A group is by promising DOH-nothing more and nothing less. So, we can put the whole issue to bed now.

 

[IORFA]

Get your facts straight, we NEVER stapled all TWA F/A's to the bottom. By the time a integration agreement was reached, most were given 4-10-2001 seniority. Some were given, I think, 12-15-2001 seniority with some original AA new hires in between.

 

[NYCDelta]

Get your facts straight, we NEVER stapled all TWA F/A's to the bottom. By the time a integration agreement was reached, most were given 4-10-2001 seniority. Some were given, I think, 12-15-2001 seniority with some original AA new hires in between.

Well, they certainly weren't treated fairly, as far as I'm concerned. I'm certain most from TWA would agree and those from AA would disagree.

 

[MMB]

It will be DOH but it sickens me to think that if the roles were reversed, there's no doubt in my mind that Delta would staple US. No doubt at all.

Never happened with Delta, so I don't know where you are getting that Delta would do so in the future.
It DID happen with the formation of LCC, West pretty much got stapled, at least by Delta standards.

 

[USCREW]

It DID happen with the formation of LCC, West pretty much got stapled, at least by Delta standards.

Here, you are talking out of both sides of your mouth...So by Delta standards, the West got stapled? You're saying that since they got EXACT date of hire, this was equivalent to Delta's idea of stapling? This tells me that your idea of DOH and My idea of DOH are not the same. Maybe you're saying that, because HP was a younger airline, that they should have gotten relative seniority. Well my friend, that is NOT date of hire.

I have a question about DL ground employees transferring into inflight. I've been told that they keep HALF of their seniority for flying purposes. Is this right? If true, this is another way of messing with the F/A seniority list.

 

[NYCDelta]

Here, you are talking out of both sides of your mouth...So by Delta standards, the West got stapled? You're saying that since they got EXACT date of hire, this was equivalent to Delta's idea of stapling? This tells me that your idea of DOH and My idea of DOH are not the same. Maybe you're saying that, because HP was a younger airline, that they should have gotten relative seniority. Well my friend, that is NOT date of hire.

I have a question about DL ground employees transferring into inflight. I've been told that they keep HALF of their seniority for flying purposes. Is this right? If true, this is another way of messing with the F/A seniority list.

Not for bidding purposes. When a company transer becomes a flight attendant, they keep their company seniority for vacation and retirement. For bidding purposes, they start out new. Now, this is where it gets "screwy". During our last round of furloughs, no company transfer in In-flight was given more company seniority than 1991. It had something to do with them not getting ahead of the Pan Am people; but I never understood the reasoning and someone else on here would know better than I. At any rate, my roommate in Boston had 4 more years with the company than I, but I was senior to him in In-Flight. 🙂

 

[USCREW]

It's pretty clear-cut here. If you tranfer into inflight (technically, there is no such thing), you start at zero like a newhire. You keep company seniority for travel. There's no confusion concerning your seniority at all, whether you came from PI, PSA, HP, Trump, or customer sevice.

 

[Redbone]

I am not sure why the staple rumor keeps popping up. It is untrue. Stapling is so AA.

In the last three mergers/acquisitions for Delta, NorthEast, Western, and Pan American, there was no staple. In all of the mergers, the flight attendants were merged using a ratio.

After the Western merge, the AFA took the integration method to arbitration. The arbitrator upheld Delta's method of integration. After Pan Am, a group of former Pan Am flight attendants formed a group called FAFSI (Flight Attendants for Fair Seniority Integration) and sued Delta. The case was found to be without merit. Many of those leaders of the FAFSI group went on to become leaders of the AFA drive in 1993.

That AFA drive started in 1993, but was only able to get enough traction to call a voted in 2001. In that one vote, only 29% voted for representation. See National Mediation Board
AFA Delta Organizing Website
Other AFA Organizing Website
Delta flight attendant Anti-AFA site

The afa has not spent thousands, it has spent millions. Some speculate that spending so much to try to organize Delta is one of the main reasons that Pat Friend took the afa from independant and affiliated with the CWA. In essence, she broke the bank on Delta.

ah

Delta has steadfastly given it's FAs senority advantage in almost EVERY M/A it has ever been invovled in.

The only fair thing to do would be to RESLOT those Delta FA 's that were given super senority. (a form of stapling)

They have a problem in that they have not been fair with M/A towards other employees.

 

[rsv4ever]

Well, they certainly weren't treated fairly, as far as I'm concerned. I'm certain most from TWA would agree and those from AA would disagree.

i agree... nycdelta, while im out flying, i'm speaking for myself only) i have never heard anyone say they want stapling. everyone's response is always that they wouldn't want to be stapled so they wouldn't do it to anyone else. the only stapling i hear is on this board. i stil think that this "buy out" isn't going to happen... just saying what i hear on the line.

 

[Twicebaked]

If this does happen, your union won’t be around to do a thing for you. Per DP; with the exception of pilots and dispatchers, everyone at the “New Deltaâ€￾ will be non-union.
“Who’s going to get what they deserve?â€￾

DP only said "NO STAPLING" he said NOTHING about slotting!! Besides, it would not be up to him. It would be up to the arbitrator.

 

[joanjet]

<_< ----- Nor Easter's not too popular on the aa board either! Thinks he's cute! But I believe you could compare him with that "Super Scab" over on the NW Board!---- About the same moral level!---- :down: He would love to see US F/As stapled! That would just give him (aa) someone to point to for justification for their actions against exTWA employees!

You are exactly right. I really admire the US Airways employees for taking the high road on the DOH issue. To all the other airlines that do differently....what goes around...comes around.

😛h34r: Be afraid. Be very afraid.

 

[MMB]

... So by Delta standards, the West got stapled? You're saying that since they got EXACT date of hire, this was equivalent to Delta's idea of stapling? ...

You're the one who keeps claiming to know Delta's merger history, but you keep getting it wrong.
When Delta bought Northeast Airlines, seniority at NE was such that DOH would have put them at the bottom of just about every seniority list, just like AW/US. Unlike LCC, Delta dovetailed the two lists. Delta’s other mergers were DOH.

 

[aislehopper]

For Western and Pan Am, the other departments may have been DOH. However, for In-Flight Service, a ratio merge was used.