for go a negotiated 3% cost of living raise.

B

bagsmasher

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FA Mikey,

You really need to help keep this ship from sinking. Then when the LLCer's win their lawsuit, they can screw you out of your job. That will be your thanks for giving up your raise.
 

gogogadget

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Aug 21, 2002
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The key here guys is using some common sense. I agree totally with FA Mikey. DO NOT "GIVE" anything. (key word) If you loan something that is a toatlly different story, just make sure you cover your bases to protect your assets in court should it get abused!

One other possible scenario is to help ensure AMR has cash avail to pounce if things turn sour in other places.

I agree whole heartedly with FA Mikey in that they have not done enough to fix some of the sloppy spending and wasting. In my opinion this airline should always hve been trying to be a lean mean fighting machine. Their frivilous mentality of the past has come back to haunt them. ALL contracts were negotiated by both sides, with Management having a big say so in weather or not the could or could not live with the contracts and their costs.

Working hard to see another day but not walking blindly into the future!
 

TWAB717

Member
Oct 19, 2002
51
0
It's the perfect time to try and negotiate better work rules in exchange for $$$$$. That's how TWA f/a's ended up with some of the best workrules ever. Also, if your not willing to take a pay cut, then bow out. Have you forgotten there are over 2,000 f/a's who would like their job back, with pay cut in hand!
 

Rhino

Senior
Aug 20, 2002
308
0
Sitting in the swamp, chewing plants. One dino looks up and says, "What's that?"

Second dino says. "Don't worry, it's just an asteroid, it won't hit us."

You guys crack me up.

Mikey, AA has already taken Draconian measures to reduce costs. Where've you been?

NH/BB, I find you to be one of the least aware posters on this board. I find few things less odious than a senior employee telling a junior employee to suck up a furlough because that's the way it is. Enjoy your raise.
 
Aug 20, 2002
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TWAB717;
Quote: If your not willing to take a pay cut, bow out.

B717,
This is a general statement. I'm not a F/A, but a AA union member.
With all due respect, I don't expect ANYONE with more seniority than me, to have to give up/back ANYTHING to save my job. And I mean that, with every "fibre of my being" !!!!!!

I'm going to assume from your "handle", that you may be one of the 2000 F/a's on furlough. If your not, I'm very sure, that you'll understand my point.


In the point you raised(your quote), Not one of the furloughed 2000 F/a's has the right to expect ANY senior F/a, that is not on furlough, to give up ANYTHING to ensure that others, are recalled.

Occupational Seniority, is the "Holy Grail" of unionism.
Plz. remember, that it was "AA", NOT APFA that furloughed the 2000 f/a's, which makes it AA's responsibility to see that they're recalled !!!!!!!

This goes back to FA Mikey's point. "Mabey" if AA. had less management, or did their scheduling more cost effective, perhaps there would'nt be 2000 f/a's on furlough.

(If this applies), here's hoping that your back to work SOON.

NH/BB's
AA/AFL-CIO
 

AC AA LA FA

Veteran
Aug 21, 2002
630
22
mars
www.usaviation.com
There is tremendous waste at AA...We need to find new ways to shake it up here...Not rehashed TWA or any other ways...
Mike is right about crew productivity...our lines look like they were put together by a blind man...Maybe its time for a "pref bidding/enhanced allowcation" system..til then and more I am keepimg my 3%
 
O

okemah

Guest
Up to now, mgt has simply refused to rethink the business plan.[BR][BR]They have nibled around the edges with depeaking, and that slows the bleeding.[BR]But the problem is revenue, and they've done virtually nothing to improve it.[BR][BR]Remember, if we reconfigured our 737's to match Southwest's layout, ie., no galleys[BR]and all coach seats, we'd run at just about Southwest's costs. At that cost level, we'd[BR]just about break even across the board.[BR][BR]Since they won't/can't change the model, and see labor as the fix, as always, we have[BR]no choice but to help. But, we should keep the givebacks temporary, and tie them [BR]to AMR performance going forward. We should participate if revenue improves and [BR]profits reappear.[BR][BR]Mgt should suffer equally with us. When Carty talks about his salary and[BR]lack of raises, he's talking about only 7% of his compensation. He, like the rest of[BR]senior mgt, is rewarded primarily with stock. If/when we come out of this ditch, all[BR]of them will own a fortune of OUR company's equity.[BR][BR]Labor is certainly taking at least equal risks. We should share equally in any future[BR]gains.[BR][BR]Mgt is also showing what they really want by remaining as the primary sponsor of the [BR]bill to gut our leverage in collective bargaining.[BR][BR]At least up to now, the mgt leopard has yet to change its spots. They remain an[BR]implacable foe were're, sadly, forced to work with. [BR][BR][BR][BR][BR]
 

Wild Onion

Advanced
Aug 21, 2002
120
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I think the real enhancements in productivity come when employees from all different work groups begins working as a team instead of either waiting for someone else to do it, or refusing to do it because it violates someones contract.

FA's - It's OK to help clean a cabin on a quick turn even if you're not required. It's also OK to walk through one extra time so that to cabin doesn't need as much work on arrival for a quick turn.

Pilots - How cool would it be to have you guys interact with customers before boarding? They love it. One time, an FO went down and pulled a stroller out of the pit so that the family could be on there way. It was wonderful.

Agents/Ramp - Agents can help clean cabins. We can work together with the ramp to coordinate lots of things. If the ramp gets the upload done early, someone could come upstairs to leand a hand.

Mechanics - It should be OK for a pilot to try and fix small items at an outstation without calling on MX at the cost of a few hundred dollars, simply because he'd be violating the Mech. contract.

OK, I'm going to get blasted now, but keep in mind the the idea is cooperation and increases in productivity.
 
OP
F

FA Mikey

Veteran
Aug 19, 2002
4,421
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miami
goldwatermiller08.com
Management is pushing at congress to get an arbitration system set up. To avoid the cost of fair collective bargaining. This 3% will be icing on the cake for them.

Can I ask for it back in the next negotiations? Sure just watch AA drag there feet until the clock runs out sends it off to the independent GOP congress appointed arbitration panel.
 
OP
F

FA Mikey

Veteran
Aug 19, 2002
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NO preferential bidding system. No way, No how. It shouldn't take a rocket scientist to see paying 2000 hours for nothing in just 4 pages of one bid sheet is nothing but scheduling inefficiency. AA just doesn't seem to notice or care.

AA goes to the press and says that they need work rule changes from the crews. They utilization compared to SWA is killing us. What I see is still the same joke of scheduling. We have lines that go in to a city with a 10:07 layover. The company knowing full well it will bust. Five hour sits mid sequence. One leg, one leg last dat 4 legs. My favorite is the one leg to EWR layover for 30 hours one leg home.

Increase our utilization. Its what we want. To work the time we are at work. Then be able to be home more. Its not our duty rigs, they are protecting us from the company inefficiency with pay, not limiting the scope or work we do in a day.
 

Steiner

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Aug 21, 2002
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[blockquote]
----------------
On 12/31/2002 10:19:09 AM FA Mikey wrote:

Management is pushing at congress to get an arbitration system set up. To avoid the cost of fair collective bargaining. This 3% will be icing on the cake for them.

Can I ask for it back in the next negotiations? Sure just watch AA drag there feet until the clock runs out sends it off to the independent GOP congress appointed arbitration panel.
----------------
[/blockquote]

Why does a concessionary contract take about 2 to 4 months to negotiate, and regular contract takes 2 to 4 years to negotiate? What's up with that? Why so slow to go up, and so fast to go down?
 

AirwAr

Senior
Aug 21, 2002
435
131
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[blockquote]
----------------
On 12/31/2002 1:50:47 AM NewHampshire Black Bears wrote:

...
Occupational Seniority, is the "Holy Grail" of unionism.
....

NH/BB's
AA/AFL-CIO
----------------
[/blockquote]

I kind of thought that it was a group of individuals, pulling together as one for the common good of all.

With union members like you, who needs management?
 
Aug 20, 2002
10,142
687
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Rhino;
Quote: "I find you to be one of the least aware posters on this board"

Rhino, "Sticks and stones may break my bones, but names will never hurt me" "NA NA NA NA NA NA" !!!!!!

I've FORGOTTEN more than you'll ever learn about this industry !!

Quote: "Odious" "Enjoy your raise" !!

Thank you Rhino, I will enjoy my raise. Why ??
It's called "the old fashioned way, I EARNED IT" !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

NH/BB's
AA/AFL-CIO
 
Aug 20, 2002
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687
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AirwAr;

Quote: "(Unionism), I kind of thought that it was a group of individuals, pulling together as one, for the common good of all"

Very good AirwAr, you've correctly identified the first part of being a union member.

Now mabey you can explain(the second part) to us all.

Why does Occupational Seniority govern EVERYTHING, in the work life of a union member ??????????????????

Plz. keep in mind, that I did NOT create the concept, I only "signed on" gratefully, and took an oath to play by the (union) rules.

NH/BB's
AA/AFL-CIO